Law of Code

Jacob Robinson

Understand the legal layer of emerging technology.

Conversations with top lawyers, regulators, and entrepreneurs on the laws and policy decisions shaping our future.

Play

Open in

22 episodes
fortnightly
Avg 1 hr 8 min
English

Episodes 22

Newest Oldest Longest

All20 Unplayed20 In progress0 Played0

Counted on this page — what you have heard stays on this device, so it is not something the list can be paged by.

Friday · 22 min
Interview: The GRANITE Act, explained by Preston Byrne
The GRANITE Act is a two-and-a-half-page bill designed to stop foreign governments from censoring Americans online. Preston Byrne, the Managing Partner at Byrne & Storm, has spent over a decade advising tech companies on free speech questions. His work was instrumental in the introduction of the GRANITE Act in the U.S. House of Representatives on August 27, 2026. Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 2:10 How foreign governments censor Americans 3:34 The origins of sovereign immunity 6:40 197 demands, 4 refusals 8:58 Sovereign immunity in the courts 10:58 The GRANITE Act shield 12:37 The GRANITE Act sword 17:20 Where GRANITE stands in the states, House and Senate This episode is presented by Altitude. Visit altitude.xyz/law to understand why. Thank you to the other sponsors of this episode: Cahill Gordon & Reindel, the Solana Policy Institute and the Hyperliquid Policy Center. Preston's Blog Post: https://prestonbyrne.com/2026/08/28/rulligranite/ GRANITE Act: https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/house-bill/10174/text?s=1&r=1&hl=granite Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.
S2 · E208
Tuesday · 1 hr 28 min
#208 - Reg Crypto
What is Regulation Crypto Assets? An SEC-led rule proposal that allows projects to raise capital in the U.S. by selling tokens. That's the short answer. The long answer is this podcast. By the end of this episode, you'll understand why these rules were needed, what they say and what could still be tweaked before they become law. This episode is presented by Altitude, visit ⁠altitude.xyz/law⁠ to learn more about their financial operating system. You'll hear from leading lawyers, almost all of whom are cited in the footnotes of the SEC's own proposal: Lewis Cohen, partner at Cahill Gordon & Reindel Sarah Brennan, general counsel at Delphi Digital Gabe Shapiro, co-founder and CEO of MetaLeX Rodrigo Seira, partner at Cooley Miles Jennings, general counsel at a16z crypto Andrew Hinkes, partner at Winston Taylor Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 4:17 How we got here 6:53 Solving two problems 10:21 Reg A, Reg CF and Reg D 12:10 Five subparts of Reg Crypto 14:12 Who will use these? 18:08 The Startup Exemption 19:35 Rule 103 disclosures 21:03 LBRY and silence 30:14 Secondary markets and Telegram 34:13 The Fundraising Exemption 42:21 Why Reg A and Reg CF failed 48:14 Rule 400: Exit 50:23 Third-party problems 57:34 Under-promising 1:02:08 Essential managerial efforts 1:12:09 The state of crypto 1:15:13 State law questions 1:20:37 What's next? Thank you to the sponsors of this episode: Cahill Gordon & Reindel, the Solana Policy Institute and the Hyperliquid Policy Center. To get in touch with the Cahill team about how any issues discussed in this episode apply to your situation, email mtomsky@cahill.com. Newsletter: Stay updated on emerging tech law for free at lawofcode.fm. Any feedback on this episode? Or how to improve the podcast? Click here: https://forms.gle/yFFN66e8iy8shQkAA. Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.
August 10 · 1 hr 13 min
Interview: OSC CEO Grant Vingoe on Crypto in Canada, Part II
Grant Vingoe is the CEO of the Ontario Securities Commission, Canada's largest securities regulator. Grant explains Canada's approach to crypto and why he sees a careful, incremental approach as a strength. Law of Code is presented by Altitude, visit https://altitude.xyz/law to learn why. Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 0:55 From 30 years in New York to running the OSC 5:49 How the CSA and Canada's provincial regulators fit together 9:01 The crypto contract 12:34 Grant's first exposure to crypto 16:09 The gamification of financial markets and prediction markets 21:22 Making crypto safer for Canadians, from ETFs onward 26:30 Stablecoins 29:52 The Stablecoin Act and federal regulators 35:02 The $30,000 purchase limit 38:18 How industry can better engage regulators 45:02 Canada's brain drain question 50:34 Modernizing the regulation of public companies 54:17 Permissionless finance 1:01:13 Accredited investor rules Thank you to our other sponsors: McCarthy Tétrault LLP, with which I am co-hosting a Crypto in Canada event on August 12, 2026 in Toronto: https://luma.com/89qnrnah Osler, Hoskin & Harcourt LLP: https://www.osler.com/en/expertise/services/digital-assets-and-blockchain/ Cahill Gordon & Reindel LLP: https://www.cahill.com/practices/litigation-digital-assets-and-emerging-technology Solana Policy Institute: https://www.solanapolicyinstitute.org/ Hyperliquid Policy Center: https://hyperliquidpolicy.org/ Sign up for the free Law of Code newsletter at lawofcode.fm.
#207
August 10 · 1 hr
#207 - Crypto in Canada
How does Canada regulate crypto? This podcast answers that in less than 60 minutes. You'll hear from Grant Vingoe, CEO of the OSC, Eric Richmond, CEO of Coinbase Canada, the Bank of Canada's Anne Butler, McCarthy's Lori Stein, Osler's Matt Burgoyne, Evan Thomas, Dr. Ryan Clements of the ASC and Blair Wiley of Wealthsimple. Law of Code is presented by Altitude, visit ⁠https://altitude.xyz/law⁠ to learn why. Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 2:42 Tax 4:53 AML Rules 8:06 Securities 12:00 Investment contracts 16:13 Quadriga's collapse 23:00 The Crypto Contract 34:29 World's first Bitcoin ETF 38:23 Stablecoins 46:47 Where Canada could play offense: DeFi, perps and tokenization 52:53 The speed problem Nothing in this podcast is legal or investment advice. Thank you to our other sponsors: McCarthy Tétrault LLP, with which I am co-hosting a Crypto in Canada event on August 12, 2026 in Toronto: https://luma.com/89qnrnah Osler, Hoskin & Harcourt LLP: https://www.osler.com/en/expertise/services/digital-assets-and-blockchain/ Cahill Gordon & Reindel LLP: ⁠https://www.cahill.com/practices/litigation-digital-assets-and-emerging-technology⁠ Solana Policy Institute: ⁠https://www.solanapolicyinstitute.org/⁠ Hyperliquid Policy Center: ⁠https://hyperliquidpolicy.org/⁠ Sign up for the free Law of Code newsletter at lawofcode.fm.
August 6 · 30 min
Interview: Legora's Kyle Poe on the Future of AI & Law Firms
Kyle Poe is a former BigLaw partner and currently VP of Legal Innovation and Strategy at Legora, a legal AI startup valued at $5.6 billion. Kyle explains why he sees a generational reordering happening in the legal profession, how firms are best institutionalizing partner knowledge as IP, and where the moat exists for lawyers as AI grows in ubiquity. Law of Code is presented by Altitude, visit https://altitude.xyz/law to learn why. Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 0:56 The billable hour and the incentive problem inside firms 2:36 Institutionalizing partner knowledge as firm IP 4:02 Why partner buyouts are accelerating 5:56 Why AI is different from the internet and email 9:31 How top firms are operationalizing AI 12:35 Building innovation teams from the top down 14:37 More lawyers or fewer? The future of demand 19:20 Grinders, minders and finders 22:10 What lawyers should be asking about AI 25:13 Legora's moat Thank you to our other sponsors: Cahill Gordon & Reindel LLP: https://www.cahill.com/practices/litigation-digital-assets-and-emerging-technology Solana Policy Institute: https://www.solanapolicyinstitute.org/ Hyperliquid Policy Center: https://hyperliquidpolicy.org/ Sign up for the free Law of Code newsletter at lawofcode.fm.
S2 · E206
July 27 · 1 hr 31 min
#206 - How lawyers are using AI in 2026
By the end of this episode, you'll understand how lawyers are actually AI maxxing in 2026, and how you can, too. Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 1:58 Why it's the best time to be a lawyer 3:03 Hallucinations and cognitive surrender 5:33 Quality over efficiency 8:13 Why AI upends legal work 15:20 60% of contracts filed to EDGAR have mistakes 20:04 How LLMs actually work 25:59 Zero data retention, explained 29:16 The privacy risk beyond training 39:16 How to prompt 47:03 Michael Showalter's AI-native litigation stack 55:27 Spellbook's Compare to Market Feature 1:03:10 Building a regulatory agent 1:09:50 The judgment crisis for junior lawyers 1:12:15 Cooley's AI training method You'll hear from 10 people at the cutting edge of legal AI: Zack Shapiro, Founder and Managing Partner at Rains LLP Molly Abraham, General Counsel at Coinbase Sujit Raman, Chief Legal Officer at TRM Labs Michael Showalter, Founder of Showalter PLLC Erich Dylus, attorney, programmer and creator of CamoText Aaron Kelly, General Counsel and open source AI expert David Wang, Chief Innovation Officer at Cooley Scott Stevenson, CEO of Spellbook Justin McCallon, CEO of StrongSuit Samson Enzer, Partner at Cahill Gordon & Reindel This episode is presented by Altitude, visit altitude.xyz/law to learn more about their financial operating system. Newsletter: Stay updated on emerging tech law for free at lawofcode.fm. Any feedback on this episode? Or how to improve the podcast? Click here: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1QAcE1sQAKZIkma20DbyB5frgKdiK8UB6Fkb6CwaVP1I/edit Sponsors: Thank you to the Hyperliquid Policy Center and Solana Policy Institute for supporting this podcast. To get in touch with the Cahill team about how any issues discussed in this episode apply to your situation, email mtomsky@cahill.com. Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.
S2 · E205
July 13 · 2 hr
#205 - AI, Crypto & the First Amendment
When should software lose free speech protections? This podcast covers software and the First Amendment, tracing the history from Cold War export controls to recent restrictions on advanced AI models. My goal: the internet's most comprehensive explainer on speech and code, from cryptography to cryptocurrency to AI. In this episode, you'll hear from leading experts on the legal layer of software and free speech: Peter Van Valkenburgh, Executive Director at Coin Center Laz Pieper, Director of Research at Coin Center Eugene Volokh, First Amendment scholar and Fellow at the Hoover Institution Jane Bambauer, Brechner Eminent Scholar at the University of Florida Preston Byrne, Managing Partner at Byrne & Storm Sam Enzer, partner at Cahill Gordon & Reindel and co-chair of CahillNXT By the end of this episode, I promise you'll be in the top percentile for understanding when code is protected speech, regardless of where you're starting from. (You just might need to listen twice. There's a lot here.) This episode is presented by Altitude, visit Altitude.xyz/law to learn more about their financial operating system. Timestamps: 0:00 Anthropic AI export controls 6:17 Introduction 9:39 Reading the First Amendment 10:38 Eugene Volokh on his First Amendment philosophy 13:42 The machine gun sculpture: speech vs function 19:24 Peter Van Valkenburgh interview 25:50 The Cold War, munitions list and Phil Zimmermann 29:57 The Bernstein case 34:53 Strict scrutiny 38:48 The Corley case 49:17 Sorrell, Stevens and where the Supreme Court is heading 53:25 Preston Byrne on the Supreme Court's AI case 57:23 Defense Distributed and 3D-printing 1:04:00 Where publication ends and professional conduct begins 1:15:20 Lowe v. SEC and the agency line 1:45:45 Compelled speech, the IRS broker rule and tobacco labels 2:04:17 Laz Pieper on Sorrell and third-party liability 2:11:29 Preston Byrne on the GRANITE Act and foreign censorship Newsletter: Stay updated on emerging tech law for free at lawofcode.fm. https://www.lawofcode.fm/ Any feedback on this episode? Or how to improve the podcast? Click here. https://forms.gle/W4d2a5aHuLJjuNdn7 Sponsors: Thank you to the Hyperliquid Policy Center and Solana Policy Institute for supporting this podcast. To get in touch with the Cahill team about how any issues discussed in this episode apply to your situation, email mtomsky@cahill.com. Subscribe to Cahill's free client alerts on digital assets and emerging technology at https://www.cahill.com/news/index?search=1&practice=litigation-digital-assets-and-emerging-technology. Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.
S2 · E204
June 30 · 2 hr 55 min
#204 - Prediction Markets
Prediction markets are a multi-billion dollar industry, led by companies like Kalshi and Polymarket. They are also controversial. Some want them banned and believe they are operating illegally, while others see them as invaluable truth-seeking markets. This podcast is a multi-hour deep dive on prediction markets, starting from conclave betting in 15th century Rome to the CFTC's proposed rulemaking on Rule 40.11 earlier this month. My goal: The internet's most comprehensive explainer on prediction markets. By the end of this episode, I promise you'll be in the top percentile for understanding prediction markets, regardless of where you're starting from. (You just might need to listen twice. There's a lot here.) Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 1:40 16th century papal betting (Koleman Strumpf) 11:13 Insider trading rules on prediction markets (Bobby DeNault) 16:20 The Google search insider case and Rule 180.1 (Sam Enzer) 27:38 Why prediction markets matter (Chris Giancarlo) 33:20 Election betting in America38:35 Iowa Electronic Markets and the 1992 no-action letter 45:56 Dodd-Frank, swaps and the Special Rule 48:08 Senator Lincoln on Super Bowl and Derby contracts 55:49 Parlays as swaps (Josh Sterling) 1:01:23 CFTC's exclusive jurisdiction (Thania Charmani) 1:07:30 Perspective on the CFTC's NPRM (Michael Passalacqua) 1:14:55 Exceptions that swallow the rule (Paul Grewal) 1:27:25 How prediction markets actually work 1:36:05 Kalshi's probability-weighted fee structure 1:38:18 Cardi B and the resolution problem (Dustin Gouker) 1:45:05 Oracles, UMA and decentralized resolution (Jeff Amico) 1:51:55 Inside the Ninth Circuit case 2:07:49 The CFTC's June 2026 proposed rulemaking (Brad Bourque, Stefan Schropp) 2:19:06 Kalshi's landmark 2024 win 2:23:05 PASPA, Murphy v. NCAA (Daniel Wallach) 2:45:14 The case against banning prediction markets (Bobby DeNault) Newsletter: Stay updated on emerging tech law for free at lawofcode.fm. https://www.lawofcode.fm/ Any feedback on this episode? Or how to improve the podcast? Click here. https://forms.gle/W4d2a5aHuLJjuNdn7 Sponsors: This episode is sponsored by Cahill Gordon & Reindel, the Hyperliquid Policy Center, and the Solana Policy Institute. To get in touch with the Cahill team about how the issues discussed in this episode apply to your situation, email mtomsky@cahill.com. Subscribe to Cahill's free client alerts on digital assets and emerging technology at https://www.cahill.com/news/index?search=1&practice=litigation-digital-assets-and-emerging-technology. In this episode, you'll hear from the world's leading experts on the legal layer of prediction markets: Josh Sterling, partner at Millbank Bobby DeNault, Head of Enforcement at Kalshi Chris Giancarlo, former Chairman of the CFTC Daniel Wallach, founder of Wallach Legal LLC Stefan Schropp, Senior Regulatory Counsel at Paradigm Sam Enzer, partner at Cahill Gordon & Reindel and co-chair of CahillNXT Paul Grewal, Chief Legal Officer at Coinbase Koleman Strumpf, economics professor at Wake Forest Brad Bourque, Policy Counsel at Hyperliquid Policy Center Thania Charmani, partner at Winston & Taylor Michael Passalacqua, Senior Advisor to CFTC Chairman Selig Jeff Amico, Chief Operating Officer at Gensyn Matt Kalish, co-founder of DraftKings and CEO of Hardscope Dustin Gouker, author of the Event Horizons newsletter Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.
S2 · E203
June 15 · 59 min
#203 - How the SEC Writes Crypto Rules
How do regulators actually write the rules for crypto? SEC Commissioner Hester Peirce and Taylor Lindman, Chief Counsel of the SEC's Crypto Task Force, take us inside the process, recorded at the SEC offices in Washington, D.C. We cover CLARITY Act rulemaking, lessons from Dodd-Frank, principles-based regulation and navigating the risks of decentralized projects. If you want to understand how an agency like the SEC actually works, this episode is for you. Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 1:20 Commissioner Peirce's philosophy on capital markets 5:04 Rulemaking at the SEC 6:48 The SEC's divisions, explained 8:27 How the Crypto Task Force is staffed 10:37 Lessons from Dodd-Frank 13:10 Legal artisans 15:15 The Clarity Act deadlines 18:55 Decentralized intermediaries 20:56 Principles-based vs prescriptive regulation 24:49 Tackling difficult crypto questions 26:23 Leveraging AI for data review 29:46 "Come in and register" under this SEC 33:50 SEC & CFTC collaboration 35:52 Re-engaging the crypto industry 40:00 Crypto Task Force & the Clarity Act 45:54 The SEC's non-crypto priorities 48:41 Avoiding another regulation-by-enforcement era 57:14 Thank you to Sam Enzer, Lewis Cohen and Cahill, plus a shoutout to Day One Law and Nick Pullman Newsletter: I'm re-launching the Law of Code newsletter soon: you can ⁠⁠⁠stay updated on emerging tech law for free here⁠⁠⁠: https://www.lawofcode.fm/ Any feedback on this episode? Or how to improve the podcast? ⁠⁠Click here: https://forms.gle/W4d2a5aHuLJjuNdn7 Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.
S2 · E202
June 1 · 2 hr 13 min
#202 - Perps
Over a trillion dollars worth of perps are traded every month, yet 99% people have never heard of them. Fewer understand how they work. This podcast is a multi-hour deep dive on perps, starting from the history of grain futures in Chicago to a historic CFTC announcement on Friday, May 29, 2026. My goal: The internet's most comprehensive explainer on perps. In this episode, you'll hear from the world's leading experts on the legal layer of perps: Hyperliquid Policy Center CEO Jake Chervinsky and policy counsel Brad Bourque BrettHarrison, CEO of Architect Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos, general counsel of StarkWare Ryne Miller, partner at Morrison Foerster Mike Frisch, partner at Croke Fairchild David Shafer, lawyer at Coinbase By the end of this episode, I promise you'll be in the top percentile for understanding perps, regardless of where you're starting from. (You just might need to listen twice. There's a lot here.) Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 4:04 What is a perp? 7:18 Why futures contracts exist 8:15 Liquidity fragmentation 11:01 History of U.S. futures 17:08 Richard Nixon, the gold standard and financial futures 21:27 Birth of the CFTC 24:27 Robert Shiller's 1992 paper 30:09 Price convergence 32:00 The funding rate 43:41 Oracles and manipulation risk 47:39 Are perps swaps or futures? 52:44 A @ChairmanSelig clip on perps 54:02 The DCM framework 59:16 DCMs, DCOs and FCMs explained 1:04:55 History of crypto perps (BitMEX, FTX) 1:13:00 How Hyperliquid works 1:25:41 CFTC's historic announcements on May 29, 2026 1:35:00 Fireside with @jchervinsky and @BradBourque of @HyperliquidPC Newsletter: I'm re-launching the Law of Code newsletter soon: you can ⁠⁠⁠stay updated on emerging tech law for free here⁠⁠⁠. https://www.lawofcode.fm/ Any feedback on this episode? Or how to improve the podcast? ⁠⁠Click here⁠⁠. https://forms.gle/W4d2a5aHuLJjuNdn7 Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.
S2 · E201
May 18 · 1 hr 53 min
#201 - The CLARITY Act
What is the CLARITY Act? Maybe the most important piece of financial legislation in a generation. This podcast explains the history of U.S. digital asset regulation, why regulation-by-enforcement failed and what the CLARITY Act addresses, plus remaining steps for this to become law. Guests: Lewis Cohen, Partner & Co-Chair of CahillNXT's Digital Assets & Emerging Technology practice Miles Jennings, Head of Policy & General Counsel for a16z crypto Sarah Brennan, general counsel at Delphi Ventures Kyle Bligen, Head of Policy and Public Affairs at the Decentralization Research Center Miller Whitehouse-Levine, CEO at Solana Policy Institute Dugan Bliss, Head of Litigation at Binance By the end of this episode, I promise you'll be in the 99th percentile for understanding CLARITY, regardless of whether you're a lawyer, builder or operator. Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 4:46 Explaining market structure 6:05 Regulatory distortion 10:43 Predecessor bills 13:35 Senate Banking markup takeaways 15:46 SEC & CFTC 20:37 The Securities Act of 1933 23:07 The Howey Test 25:26 The Ineluctable Modality of Securities Law 28:51 SEC enforcement 32:32 Why SEC rulemaking isn't enough 37:36 Titles of CLARITY 40:00 Digital commodities 47:29 Investment contract principles 54:10 Promoters: originators 58:18 Promoters: related persons 1:04:13 Token taxonomy 1:11:02 Ancillary asset requirements 1:19:34 The certification process 1:28:32 Remaining hurdles for CLARITY 1:34:50 Stablecoin yield 1:38:45 Ethics 1:45:50 Tax consequences 1:48:54 Thanking people working on the bill, such as @SenLummis, @gillibrandny, @SenatorTimScott, @SenatorHagerty, @SenThomTillis, @MarkWarner, @SenRubenGallego, @Sen_Alsobrooks, their staffs & many, many others. Newsletter: I'm re-launching the Law of Code newsletter soon: you can ⁠⁠⁠stay updated on emerging tech law for free here⁠⁠⁠. https://www.lawofcode.fm/ Any feedback on this episode? Or how to improve the podcast? ⁠⁠Click here⁠⁠. https://forms.gle/W4d2a5aHuLJjuNdn7 Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.
S2 · E200
May 4 · 1 hr 49 min
#200 - Money Transmission & Developer Liability
Can the U.S. government send a software developer to prison for writing and publishing code? That's the question at the center of the Tornado Cash and Samourai Wallet prosecutions, and every crypto founder, builder and investor should understand the answer. This deep-dive episode walks through the history of U.S. money transmission law, how the DOJ is applying it to non-custodial software developers, what the Roman Storm verdict actually means, and what new legislation could change in 2026. Guests: Peter Van Valkenburgh — Executive Director, Coin Center Amanda Tuminelli — Chief Executive Officer, DeFi Education Fund Brian Klein — Partner at Cooley, lead defense attorney for Roman Storm Jake Chervinsky — Hyperliquid Policy Center (cameo) This is the most comprehensive podcast I've ever done. Welcome to Law of Code, Season 2. Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 3:18 What's at stake? 4:40 Which developers are at risk 6:03 Custodial vs. non-custodial 9:32 What is a money transmission license? 9:47 Steamships, the telegraph & Western Union 12:14 The Bank Secrecy Act 13:38 Section 1960 15:26 The Patriot Act 19:39 FinCEN's 2013 and 2019 guidance 24:42 OFAC sanctions Tornado Cash 27:30 How Tornado Cash works 30:48 Coin Center v. Yellen 32:24 DOJ indicts Roman Storm, Roman Semenov, Roman Sterlingov & Samourai Wallet developers 35:15 The Van Loon win 40:33 Developer losses 43:48 Bad facts make bad law 48:46 Brian Klein on Roman Storm's case 50:50 The Brady letter 57:00 Michael Lewellen sues for answers 1:09:24 The Blanche memo 1:18:46 The Galeotti speech 1:26:13 Catch-22 for developers 1:30:03 The chilling effect on U.S. innovation 1:33:48 Blockchain Regulatory Certainty Act 1:38:03 Promoting Innovation in Blockchain Development Act 1:45:28 What's next Nothing in this podcast is legal or investment advice. Newsletter: I'm re-launching the Law of Code newsletter soon: you can ⁠⁠⁠stay updated on emerging tech law for free here⁠⁠⁠. https://www.lawofcode.fm/ Any feedback on this episode? Or how to improve the podcast? ⁠⁠Click here⁠⁠. https://forms.gle/W4d2a5aHuLJjuNdn7 Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.
#186
April 20 · 41 min
#186 - AI & Legal Privilege
Does attorney-client privilege exist when you use ChatGPT or Claude? Should it? Jacob Robinson sits down with Mike Katz, Partner at Manatt Phelps & Phillips, to examine whether attorney-client privilege, work product or any analogous protection applies when non-lawyers ask AI chatbots legal questions. Timestamps: ➡️ 0:00 — Background ➡️ 1:47 — What is attorney-client privilege? ➡️ 2:44 — Policy reasons for narrowing privilege ➡️ 3:30 — The Upjohn case (1981) ➡️ 4:34 — Privilege vs. work product doctrine ➡️ 5:17 — Three elements to establish privilege ➡️ 7:23 — Consumer AI terms of service and confidentiality ➡️ 8:09 — How you lose privilege ➡️ 11:30 — War stories ➡️ 15:39 — Vibe lawyering ➡️ 19:09 — Could Anthropic, OpenAI be liable? ➡️ 22:48 — The Heppner case (2026) ➡️ 26:26 — The Kovel doctrine (1961) ➡️ 28:14 — Incognito mode & deleted chats ➡️ 30:59 — The policy question ➡️ 34:00 — This is not a new problem ➡️ 37:05 — Are lawyers coal or horses? Jevons Paradox Sponsor: Day One Law, a boutique corporate law firm that provides strategic legal counsel to startups, crypto projects, and Web3 innovators. ⁠You can get in contact with them via this link⁠: ⁠⁠https://www.dayonelaw.xyz/#contact. Also: I'm re-launching the Law of Code newsletter as the world's shortest legal newsletter! You can ⁠⁠stay updated on emerging tech law for free here⁠⁠. https://www.lawofcode.fm/ Any feedback on this episode? Or how to improve the podcast? ⁠Click here⁠. https://forms.gle/W4d2a5aHuLJjuNdn7 Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.
#185
April 13 · 43 min
#185 - Why Circle should freeze USDC, with Austin Campbell
When does U.S. law require Circle to freeze USDC? It's a question many are asking after a series of wallets were frozen in connection to a sealed civil case, and again after Solana's Drift Protocol was drained of $285 million. Jacob Robinson is joined by Austin Campbell, founder of Zero Knowledge Consulting and adjunct professor at Columbia Business School, for a masterclass on the legal framework governing stablecoin freezes. Timestamps: ➡️ 0:00 — Intro ➡️ 2:00 — The March 2026 freeze of 16 wallets tied to a sealed civil case ➡️ 4:31 — How bank freezes actually work ➡️ 7:27 — Circle's legal obligation to freeze ➡️ 9:40 — Does Circle's terms of service even apply to secondary holders? ➡️ 11:24 — The privity problem ➡️ 13:20 — The five-piece legal framework that functions like a safe harbor for institutions freezing assets ➡️ 16:43 — DeFi's second-order exposure to asset freezes ➡️ 18:29 — Can DeFi adapt? ➡️ 21:03 — Circle's response to the Drift exploit ➡️ 22:34 — DeFi and the legal system ➡️ 24:27 — Bitcoin as the ideologically consistent alternative ➡️ 28:18 — Why people want intermediaries with liability ➡️ 31:04 — The Drift exploit: why Circle should have frozen USDC ➡️ 36:34 — The exploit difficulty ➡️ 38:27 — Real world assets on chain: the DeFi trilemma Sponsor: Day One Law, a boutique corporate law firm that provides strategic legal counsel to startups, crypto projects, and Web3 innovators. ⁠You can get in contact with them via this link⁠: ⁠⁠https://www.dayonelaw.xyz/#contact. Resources: 📓 Circle's April 10, 2026 statement on the Drift exploit and USDC freeze authority by Dante Disparte 📓 ZachXBT's X thread on Circle's USDC freeze history Also: I'm re-launching the Law of Code newsletter as the world's shortest legal newsletter! You can ⁠stay updated on emerging tech law for free here⁠. https://lawofcode.beehiiv.com/ Any feedback on this episode? Or how to improve the podcast? Click here. https://forms.gle/W4d2a5aHuLJjuNdn7 Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.
#184
April 7 · 27 min
#184 - Transaction Denied: Rainey Reitman on Financial Censorship
What are the risks of allowing financial institutions to cut off access to the economy for lawful but controversial activity? Rainey Reitman is a civil liberties advocate and the author of Transaction Denied, a comprehensive investigation into debanking, financial censorship, and the growing role of financial institutions in regulating speech. She previously worked at the Electronic Frontier Foundation and co-founded the Freedom of the Press Foundation. Timestamps: ➡️ 1:20 — Why cash functions as a civil liberty (privacy + censorship resistance) ➡️ 3:21 — What inspired Transaction Denied and early experiences with debanking ➡️ 5:20 — The Chelsea Manning Support Network PayPal freeze ➡️ 8:27 — Operation Chokepoint and the rise of financial censorship ➡️ 11:25 — “Banking while Muslim” and over-compliance with sanctions ➡️ 15:08 — The Patriot Act and incentives for financial surveillance ➡️ 17:12 — Financial intermediaries and the power to block transactions ➡️ 17:48 — Bitcoin, custodians, and whether crypto solves debanking ➡️ 19:33 — Why financial censorship affects everyone—not just targeted groups ➡️ 21:58 — NRA v. Vullo and the limits of government pressure on banks Sponsor: Day One Law, a boutique corporate law firm founded by Nick Pullman. Nick and his team at Day One provide strategic legal counsel to startups, crypto projects, and Web3 innovators. ⁠You can get in contact with them via this link⁠: ⁠⁠https://www.dayonelaw.xyz/#contact Resources: 📚 Pre-order Transaction Denied 📖 The Patriot Act 👩‍⚖️ Supreme Court decision in National Rifle Association v. Vullo Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by the guest are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.
#183
April 6 · 39 min
#183 - A founder's playbook for new SEC crypto guidance
What should crypto founders know about the SEC and CFTC's joint interpretive guidance on securities law? Joining to discuss is Joe Doll (@Sh0edog), Counsel at Day One Law and previously General Counsel at a crypto startup. Joe wrote a detailed breakdown of the guidance aimed at founders, which we walk through from start to finish. Timestamps: ➡️ 0:00 — Intro ➡️ 0:07 — Why the Howey Test exists ➡️ 3:11 — Why tokens are not necessarily securities ➡️ 7:47 — The five-category token taxonomy explained ➡️ 8:45 — Digital commodities ➡️ 12:13 — The four-factor "statement" test ➡️ 15:57 — Why the guidance might chill disclosure ➡️ 19:32 — Joe's proposal for a minimum attachment period ➡️ 23:30 — Fungibility and the token sales problem ➡️ 28:29 — Decentralization, disclosure obligations, and the CLARITY Act ➡️ 29:41 — Why the attachment theory better serves the policy goals of securities law ➡️ 31:51 — Airdrops ➡️ 37:53 — The CLARITY Act's control framework ➡️ 38:58 — Linux, Red Hat, and the case for immutability ➡️ 43:12 — Equity versus token value ➡️ 43:25 — The story behind the handle @sh0edog ➡️ 45:04 — Decentralized communities Resources: 📓 Joe Doll's article breaking down the SEC and CFTC interpretive guidance for founders 📓 SEC and CFTC joint interpretive release on the application of securities laws to crypto assets Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship. Obviously.
March 30 · 49 min
#182 - Lewis Cohen explains new SEC & CFTC token guidance
When does transacting in a crypto asset become a securities transaction? The SEC and CFTC recently issued an interpretation clarifying how the federal securities laws apply to certain crypto assets and transactions involving crypto assets. Joining to discuss that is Lewis Cohen, co-chair of Cahill’s digital assets and emerging technologies practice and one of the leading experts on the application of U.S. securities laws to crypto. Timestamps: ➡️ 2:26 — Why a token can be a non-security asset, but still sold in a securities transaction ➡️ 4:21 — The SEC’s “attachment and separation” concept explained ➡️ 7:22 — Secondary market transactions and the limits of existing case law ➡️ 11:15 — Why third parties may be exposed to securities law risk ➡️ 14:09 — Who counts as an “issuer” in crypto—and why the concept breaks down ➡️ 17:56 — What qualifies as a promise or representation under Howey ➡️ 23:27 — Why disclosure—not classification—is the real solution ➡️ 25:46 — Can an investment contract “detach” once promises are fulfilled? ➡️ 30:19 — Civil liability, enforcement risk, and second-order market effects ➡️ 34:42 — The danger of bifurcated markets and uneven information access Sponsor: Day One Law, a boutique corporate law firm founded by Nick Pullman. Nick and his team at Day One provide strategic legal counsel to startups, crypto projects, and Web3 innovators. ⁠You can get in contact with them via this link⁠: ⁠⁠https://www.dayonelaw.xyz/#contact Resources: 📓 SEC’s interpretive release on the application of security laws to crypto assets and transactions ✍️ Lewis Cohen's client alert on the recent guidance Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by the guest are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.
March 23 · 42 min
#181 - Fixing crypto's banking bottleneck with Aaron Brogan
Can new “payment accounts” with the federal reserve solve the crypto industry’s banking problem? Aaron Brogan is the founder and managing partner of Brogan Law, where he advises crypto companies on regulatory strategy, transactions, and policy. He also works with industry groups like the Blockchain Association on comment letters and rulemaking related to crypto banking access and financial regulation. Timestamps: ➡️ 1:22 — What a Federal Reserve master account is and why crypto firms want one ➡️ 6:34 — “Skinny” payment accounts: what they include—and what they leave out ➡️ 7:16 — The core flaw: no interest, no overdraft protection, and balance constraints ➡️ 10:52 — Why incremental policy wins matter in Washington ➡️ 12:16 — How agency posture—not law—has shifted dramatically since 2024 ➡️ 13:09 — Advising clients amid uncertainty: baseline law vs. regulatory signals ➡️ 16:11 — Why now may be the best time to take regulatory risk in crypto ➡️ 16:44 — The biggest risk: a political shift triggered by a “black swan” event ➡️ 18:36 — Onshoring vs. offshore structures: why many crypto projects still leave the U.S. ➡️ 21:53 — Prediction markets, state vs. federal power, and a likely Supreme Court fight Sponsor: This episode is brought to you by the Decentralization Research Center (DRC), a nonprofit think tank advocating for decentralization in emerging technologies. Learn more at thedrcenter.org. Resources: 📃 Aaron’s newsletter on so-called “skinny” master accounts, with a discussion of his comment letter on behalf of the Blockchain Association 📖 The Federal Reserve's RFI on Reserve Bank Payment Accounts ✉️ “Brogan Law is Built for War” newsletter by Aaron Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by the guest are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.
#179
March 16 · 44 min
#179 - This month in crypto law: March 2026
What were the most important legal and regulatory developments in crypto this month? In this episode, we review developments from stablecoin rulemaking and DeFi liability cases to the ongoing fight over prediction markets. Jonathan Schmalfeld is Director of Policy at The Digital Chamber, where he focuses on crypto policy, digital asset legislation, and regulatory developments in Washington. Timestamps ➡️ 1:07 — SEC guidance allowing broker-dealers to apply a 2% capital haircut to payment stablecoins ➡️ 4:37 — OCC’s GENIUS Act implementation proposal and the debate over stablecoin yield restrictions ➡️ 11:14 — The Promoting Innovation and Blockchain Development Act and developer liability protections ➡️ 17:27 — Federal court dismissal of claims against Uniswap and what it means for DeFi developers ➡️ 22:55 — How Kalshi enforced insider trading rules in its CFTC-regulated prediction markets ➡️ 27:37 — Kalshi’s preliminary injunction against Tennessee regulators and the federal preemption fight ➡️ 31:15 — Why prediction market litigation could eventually reach the U.S. Supreme Court ➡️ 36:25 — Institutional adoption: Morgan Stanley custody plans, Kraken’s Fed master account, and crypto banking licenses ➡️ 40:24 — Operation Chokepoint 2.0 and proposed rules eliminating “reputational risk” in bank supervision ➡️ 43:23 — Why competition between crypto and traditional finance is accelerating Sponsor: Day One Law, a boutique corporate law firm founded by Nick Pullman. Nick and his team at Day One provide strategic legal counsel to startups, crypto projects, and Web3 innovators. ⁠You can get in contact with them via this link⁠: ⁠⁠https://www.dayonelaw.xyz/#contact Resources: 📃 Updated SEC Division of Trading & Markets FAQ ✍️ Hester Peirce statement on updated SEC FAQ 📃 OCC Notice of proposed rulemaking for implementation of the GENIUS Act 📓 Promoting Innovation in Blockchain Development Act of 2026 📃 Kansas City Fed statement on Kraken’s fed master account Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by the guest are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.
#178
March 11 · 47 min
#178 - What a crypto lawyer learns from campaigning for New York Attorney General with Khurram Dara
What happens when a crypto policy lawyer decides to run for one of the most powerful regulatory positions in the United States — New York Attorney General? Khurram Dara is a former policy team member at Coinbase and regulatory policy principal at Bain Capital Crypto. After years working in crypto regulation and policy, he left the private sector to run for the Republican nomination for Attorney General of New York, focusing his campaign on reversing lawfare, regulatory overreach, and using the role of New York Attorney general to shape national policy. Timestamps ➡️ 1:24 — Coinbase, the SEC, and why regulation-by-enforcement pushed Dara toward politics ➡️ 4:13 — Why state attorneys general have become “regulators of last resort” ➡️ 9:30 — Running for office without prior political experience ➡️ 11:31 — How statewide campaigns actually start: conventions, delegates, and ballot access ➡️ 17:02 — Campaign execution: fundraising, messaging, and building a political operation ➡️ 24:27 — What Dara learned about fundraising and donor dynamics ➡️ 28:08 — What “lawfare” means and why it concerns the crypto industry ➡️ 33:08 — The economic impact of regulation through litigation ➡️ 37:40 — How state AG offices could be reformed ➡️ 45:45 — Why state-level crypto regulation may be the next battleground Sponsor: This episode is brought to you by the Decentralization Research Center (DRC), a nonprofit think tank advocating for decentralization in emerging technologies. Learn more at thedrcenter.org. Resources: 👨‍⚖️ SEC Dismissal of Civil Enforcement Against Coinbase 📄 Press release for Attorney General James’ lawsuit against Trump family financial business 📄 Press release for Oregon lawsuit against Coinbase Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by the guest are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

Showing 1–20 of 22 episodes