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Ill Conceived

Josh Boerman & June Sternbach

A podcast about natalism. Hosted by Josh Boerman (The Worst of All Possible Worlds, Traditional Scrench) and June Sternbach (Kill The Computer, The Onion).

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  • 22 episodes
  • weekly
  • Avg 1 hr 3 min
  • English

Episodes 22

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  • S3 · E5
    Friday · 1 hr 8 min

    The Golden Pig Presents: Babies' Choice

    We’re cooking up a super-sized serving of Ill Conceived goodness for next week, so in the meantime we decided to dig back into the World Famous Mailbag to read and answer the stuff you’ve been wondering about but we haven’t found space to cover on the main show or the B-sides, including: Personal experiences with Aporia’s Noah Carl Parsing the hypocrisy of female right-wing talking heads The conservative Catholic propaganda mill known as Franciscan University of Steubenville How conservative Christian communities tend to privilege parents over non-parents The effects of being forced to be a caretaker in your family The exclusion of queer families from natalist communities ***WANT MORE ILL CONCEIVED? Every other week, we release B-side supplements to the main episodes where we read your e-mail responses and discuss things further. Come check us out at Patreon.com/illconceived!*** ***WE WANT YOUR THOUGHTS FOR THE WORLD FAMOUS MAILBAG! Send an email with feedback about this week's episode to illconceivedpod@gmail.com*** EPISODE ART: It's the pig. SOURCES: "Northwestern’s African Studies Program Loses Research Status but Will Continue" by Olivia Sanchez (Inside Higher Ed, August 18, 2026) Franciscan University page about the Portiuncula Franciscan University page about the Tomb of the Unborn Child FOLLOW THE SHOW: Website: illconceivedpodcast.com Bluesky: ‪@illconceivedpodcast.com Tumblr: @illconceivedpod FOLLOW JOSH: Website: joshboerman.com Bluesky: @bosh.worstpossible.world Other podcast: The Worst of All Possible Worlds Stream: Traditional Scrench FOLLOW JUNE: Bluesky: @junlper.beer Other podcast: Kill The Computer Writing: June's Substack ILL CONCEIVED THEME SONG BY: Caleb (Linktree / Bluesky)

  • August 29 · 19 min

    Aporia / The Human Diversity Foundation: The B-Side (PREVIEW)

    THIS IS A PREVIEW OF A BONUS B-SIDE EPISODE. For access to the full length version of this and every other biweekly bonus B-side, go to Patreon.com/illconceived -------------------------- If Nathan Cofnas is to be believed, he’s going to retain his position at Ghent University, in no small part thanks to a petition of support that was signed by nearly 1,000 academics. We’re talking about it, plus digging into the work of Bouke de Vries, a UGhent professor who brought Cofnas into the fold and has published scholarly work with a eugenicist/natalist bent. We’re also making music recs and reading your letters about: The connection between HDF and Malcolm Collins (watch the BBC4 documentary here or on BBC iPlayer) Erik Ahrens’ whole deal and his connection to AfD in Germany How to properly score the World Famous Mailbag

  • S3 · E4
    August 23 · 1 hr 16 min

    Aporia / The Human Diversity Foundation

    Back in December 2025, when we talked about the book The Bell Curve, we kept running into the Human Diversity Foundation. This organization, which disseminates bunk pseudo-science through its journal Mankind Quarterly and its blog Aporia, has long been dedicated to advancing the white nationalist cause. This week, two news stories broke—one fairly minor and silly, the other devastating and tragic—that find a common thread in HDF, so Josh and June decided to finally do a full episode about this organization and its key figures. ***WANT MORE ILL CONCEIVED? Every other week, we release B-side supplements to the main episodes where we read your e-mail responses and discuss things further. Come check us out at Patreon.com/illconceived!*** ***WE WANT YOUR THOUGHTS FOR THE WORLD FAMOUS MAILBAG! Send an email with feedback about this week's episode to illconceivedpod@gmail.com*** EPISODE ART: Nathan Cofnas, a proponent of so-called scientific racism who was recently suspended from his doctoral program at Ghent University in Belgium. Cofnas, who is frequently cited in HDF publications and has appeared on their podcast numerous times, published an article to his blog alleging that recently appointed Cambridge professor Jason Arday, who was a black man, plagiarized his PhD dissertation. Though an investigation cleared Arday of the charges, the story gained overwhelming coverage in the British media. Arday was found dead on August 14. SOURCES: “Race Science Inc.” by Harry Shukman & Patrik Hermansson (Hope Not Hate, October 16, 2024) “The Peter Thiel-Linked Race Science Network that Penetrated Cambridge University and Targeted Jason Arday” by Nafeez Ahmed (Byline Times, August 18, 2026) “Academic who accused Jason Arday of plagiarism suspended by university” by Maia Davies (BBC, August 20, 2026) “A statement in support of Nathan Cofnas's Right to Academic Freedom of Expression” (online petition) Slutcon website Summary of Slutcon events from their Substack “Three Reasons Possession Of Child Porn Must Be Re-Legalized In The Coming Decade” by Rick Falkvinge (note comments on bottom by Emil Kirkegaard) Summary of Emil Kirkegaard libel litigation from 2019 “DEI Fraud and Cover-Up at Cambridge” by Nathan Cofnas Emil Kirkegaard buys Aella a bed on Amazon Aella with Diana Fleischman’s baby “The Beats: Decadence and Disease” by Simon Maass “Why does success run in families?” by Noah Carl “Adding genetic interests to utilitarianism” by Emil O. W. Kirkegaard “Ideas Have Consequences” by Bo Winegard FOLLOW THE SHOW: Website: illconceivedpodcast.com Bluesky: ‪@illconceivedpodcast.com Tumblr: @illconceivedpod FOLLOW JOSH: Website: joshboerman.com Bluesky: @bosh.worstpossible.world Other podcast: The Worst of All Possible Worlds Stream: Traditional Scrench FOLLOW JUNE: Bluesky: @junlper.beer Other podcast: Kill The Computer Writing: June's Substack ILL CONCEIVED THEME SONG BY: Caleb (Linktree / Bluesky)

  • August 16 · 21 min

    Vladimir Putin: The B-Side (PREVIEW)

    THIS IS A PREVIEW OF A BONUS B-SIDE EPISODE. For access to the full length version of this and every other biweekly bonus B-side, go to Patreon.com/illconceived -------------------------- Balaji Srinivasan's Network School got kicked out of Malaysia, so they're picking up stakes and moving to Kazakhstan while making a hard pivot into being a natalist compound. We're talking about it, plus we read your letters on: The shape of Russia during the 90s, 2000s, and now Traveling to Russia in the early 2010s Different statistics used to measure birth rates and how one statistic doesn't paint the whole picture Lyman Stone's tweet about Somalians and why he made the distinctions he did

  • S3 · E3
    August 10 · 1 hr 42 min

    Vladimir Putin

    Under President Vladimir Putin, the Russian Federation managed for a time to greatly slow the population and fertility decrease that the country experienced in the wake of the fall of the Soviet Union. However, things stalled out in the mid-2010s, and the escalation of the war in Ukraine has only made matters worse. This week, Josh and June take a look at Putin's attempts to engineer demographic growth in Russia over the years and discover how the war has created an insurmountable roadblock that is nevertheless changing fundamental principles of Russian society. ***WANT MORE ILL CONCEIVED? Every other week, we release B-side supplements to the main episodes where we read your e-mail responses and discuss things further. Come check us out at Patreon.com/illconceived!*** ***WE WANT YOUR THOUGHTS FOR THE WORLD FAMOUS MAILBAG! Send an email with feedback about this week's episode to illconceivedpod@gmail.com*** EPISODE ART: Vladimir Putin, the president of the Russian Federation. First elected president in 2000, Putin will theoretically be able to serve as Russia's president until 2036 thanks to a series of rule changes and constitutional amendments. AUDIO CLIPS: 1:17:25 – Putin's remarks at the 2026 Mother Heroine Awards SOURCES: Announcement of The Order of Parental Glory (Russian Kremlin, June 1, 2026) Announcement of the Year of the Family (Russian Kremlin, January 23, 2024) Putin's remarks from meeting with participants and winners of all-Russian family contests (Russian Kremlin, January 23, 2024) Announcement of Executive Order on social support measures for large families (Russian Kremlin, January 23, 2024) Total fertility rate statistics for Russia and Ukraine (The World Bank) English-language constitution of the Russian Federation, including the 2020 amendments Full text of Russia's demographic growth concept Coverage of a Yakutian family winning in the 2025 Family of the Year competition (Yakutiya 24, 2025) "Putin Honors Large Families, Links Mother Heroine Awards to Traditional Values" (APT, June 1, 2026) "There are almost no reasons left for abortion" by Varvara Petrenko (Gazeta.ru, February 14, 2012) "The Russian Orthodox Church and its fight against abortion: taking on the state and losing" by Pål Kolstø (Religion, State & Society, 2023, vol. 51 no. 2) "Putin considers it necessary for families to "be born early" in Russia" (TASS, January 25, 2024) "Russia Is in Demographic Free Fall. Putin Isn’t Helping." by Anna Nemtsova (The Atlantic, April 29, 2025) "Russian kindergarteners, schoolchildren and students began to be massively taken to taken on excursions to registry offices" (Verstka, March 3, 2026) VKontakte post about a school trip to a civil registry office CDC data on births in the United States from 1999 FOLLOW THE SHOW: Website: illconceivedpodcast.com Bluesky: ‪@illconceivedpodcast.com Tumblr: @illconceivedpod FOLLOW JOSH: Website: joshboerman.com Bluesky: @bosh.worstpossible.world Other podcast: The Worst of All Possible Worlds Stream: Traditional Scrench FOLLOW JUNE: Bluesky: @junlper.beer Other podcast: Kill The Computer Writing: June's Substack ILL CONCEIVED THEME SONG BY: Caleb (Linktree / Bluesky)

  • July 24 · 25 min

    Natalism and The New York Times: The B-Side (PREVIEW)

    THIS IS A PREVIEW OF A BONUS B-SIDE EPISODE. For access to the full length version of this and every other biweekly bonus B-side, go to Patreon.com/illconceived -------------------------- Wouldn't you know it, right after we put out our episode about the Times, they published yet another weird soft-focus profile of an anti-feminist woman. We're talking about it, plus we read your letters about: The tragedy of Andrea Yates Vanity license plates and car culture as a reflection of natalism The relationship between right-wing ideology and social conformity

  • S3 · E2
    July 18 · 1 hr 34 min

    Natalism and The New York Times

    As part of the national push by natalists to roll back the clock on gender policy in the United States, recent articles about birth rates have started popping up in the country's paper of record. One of those articles, published just last week, was written by someone we've covered quite a bit on the show already. This week, Josh and June check it out alongside four other articles about birth rates in The New York Times to get a sense of how the issue is being framed, both in good and bad faith, as a matter of news and public opinion. ***WANT MORE ILL CONCEIVED? Every other week, we release B-side supplements to the main episodes where we read your e-mail responses and discuss things further. Come check us out at Patreon.com/illconceived!*** ***WE WANT YOUR THOUGHTS FOR THE WORLD FAMOUS MAILBAG! Send an email with feedback about this week's episode to illconceivedpod@gmail.com*** EPISODE ART: The headquarters of The New York Times in midtown Manhattan AUDIO CLIPS: 26:07 – The "Gen Z boss and a mini" TikTok that made a lot of men extremely angry SOURCES: “The Quest to ‘Make America Fertile Again’ Stalls Under Trump” by Caroline Kitchener (The New York Times, January 13, 2026) “The Birthrate Is Plunging. Why Some Say That’s a Good Thing.” by Sabrina Tavernise and Jeff Adelson (The New York Times, February 27, 2026) “Women in Their 20s May Not Be Having Babies, but by 45 Most Probably Will” by Claire Kane Miller (The New York Times, April 9, 2026) “A Conservative Role Model for Ending the Fertility Crisis” by Anenoma Hartocollis (The New York Times, July 8, 2026) “The Population Bust Is Coming Sooner Than Anyone Is Prepared For” By Lyman Stone (The New York Times, July 11, 2026) FOLLOW THE SHOW: Website: illconceivedpodcast.com Bluesky: ‪@illconceivedpodcast.com Tumblr: @illconceivedpod FOLLOW JOSH: Website: joshboerman.com Bluesky: @bosh.worstpossible.world Other podcast: The Worst of All Possible Worlds Stream: Traditional Scrench FOLLOW JUNE: Bluesky: @junlper.beer Other podcast: Kill The Computer Writing: June's Substack ILL CONCEIVED THEME SONG BY: Caleb (Linktree / Bluesky)

  • June 27 · 25 min

    Viktor Orbán: The B-Side (PREVIEW)

    THIS IS A PREVIEW OF A BONUS B-SIDE EPISODE. For access to the full length version of this and every other biweekly bonus B-side, go to Patreon.com/illconceived -------------------------- This one's mostly about Rod Dreher. We also read your letters about: Performing sex live on stage (this is a reminder to get your tickets to Thursday's Chicago live show!) Why grandparents can't retire The mechanics of Orbán's Home Building Allowance for Families policy and its longer-term impacts on the Hungarian housing market The overlap between Fidesz and the Heritage Foundation, as well as their connecting link: the Danube Institute

  • S3 · E1
    June 21 · 1 hr 32 min

    Viktor Orbán

    ***TICKETS TO OUR JULY 2 SHOW IN CHICAGO ARE ON SALE! GET YOUR TICKETS NOW BY CLICKING HERE!!!!*** While natalism as a political project has its proponents, few heads of state have been willing to attempt to use the full force of the state to raise birth rates. However, one leader does stand out: Hungary's recently-ousted prime minister, Viktor Orbán. This week, June and Josh take a look at Orban's 16-year term as PM, the effects of his policies, and the ways that right-wing authoritarianism in Europe both mirrors and partners with similar movements in the United States. ***WANT MORE ILL CONCEIVED? Every other week, we release B-side supplements to the main episodes where we read your e-mail responses and discuss things further. Come check us out at Patreon.com/illconceived!*** ***WE WANT YOUR THOUGHTS FOR THE WORLD FAMOUS MAILBAG! Send an email with feedback about this week's episode to illconceivedpod@gmail.com*** EPISODE ART: Viktor Orbán, the former prime minister of Hungary. AUDIO CLIPS: 1:08:34 – Marco Rubio speaking in Budapest in February 2026, declaring a "golden era" in relations between Hungary and the United States 1:14:09 – JD Vance calling Donald Trump at an April 2026 Viktor Orban election rally in Budapest SOURCES: How Viktor Orban hollowed out Hungary’s democracy How Viktor Orbán’s Hungary Eroded the Rule of Law and Free Markets Hungary’s opposition struggles to beat Viktor Orban’s stealth autocracy Home Building Allowance for Families Viktor Orban’s pro-natalist policies are not working In a state of necessity. How has Orban changed Hungary Hungary passes constitutional amendment to ban LGBTQ+ public events Hungary Ends Legal Recognition for Transgender and Intersex People Hungary’s ongoing demographic decline: an increase in birth rates is the only hope Authoritarian Populism in Disguise: Orbán’s Anti-Worker ‘Pro-Worker’ Regime Hungary races to build border fence as migrants keep coming Orbán rejects the European Union’s migration agreement and defends keeping asylum seekers out of EU territory Conference of U.S. conservatives opens in Orban’s Hungary Hungary offered €30,000 to couples having 3 kids—but its birth rate has still fallen to a record monthly low Vance, after rallying in Hungary for Orban, says he wasn’t surprised by the autocrat’s defeat Hungary: Prime Minister Viktor Orbán announced a seven-point family protection action plan Hungary’s New Leader Reveals Viktor Orbán Was Paying CPAC Here's why American conservatives are heading to Hungary for a big conference At CPAC, Hungary’s Orban decries LGBTQ+ rights, migration What one country's experiment says about attempts to boost birth rates Farewell To Hungary, And To Europe FOLLOW THE SHOW: Website: illconceivedpodcast.com Bluesky: ‪@illconceivedpodcast.com Tumblr: @illconceivedpod FOLLOW JOSH: Website: joshboerman.com Bluesky: @bosh.worstpossible.world Other podcast: The Worst of All Possible Worlds Stream: Traditional Scrench FOLLOW JUNE: Bluesky: @junlper.beer Other podcast: Kill The Computer Writing: June's Substack ILL CONCEIVED THEME SONG BY: Caleb (Linktree / Bluesky)

  • June 7 · 40 min

    Simone & Malcolm Collins: The B-Side (PREVIEW)

    THIS IS A PREVIEW OF A BONUS B-SIDE EPISODE. For access to the full length version of this and every other biweekly bonus B-side, go to Patreon.com/illconceived -------------------------- We weren't able to cover everything we wanted to discuss about the Collins family in the main episode, so this week we dug in for a look at the Based Camp Discord community, the Collins Institute's bespoke homeschool learning management system Parrhesia.io, and Malcom's attempt at crafting a core family theology. Plus, we read your letters about: Josh blowing it on knowing anything about Lord of the Rings The sociopolitical context of the University of St Andrews in Scotland The creative output of genetic dead-enders like us

  • S2 · E16
    May 30 · 1 hr 58 min

    Simone & Malcolm Collins

    In mainstream media coverage of natalism, one specific couple keeps popping up. Their eccentric appearance and apparent ironclad commitment to the principles of tech natalism make them catnip to curious reporters, who have profiled them exhaustively. But who are Simone and Malcolm Collins, and what are they actually trying to sell you? This week, Josh and June do their best to find out. ***GET TICKETS TO JOSH'S SHOW IN CINCINNATI HERE AND THE ILL CONCEIVED JUNE 4TH LIVE SHOW IN CHICAGO HERE!!!*** ***WANT MORE ILL CONCEIVED? Every other week, we release B-side supplements to the main episodes where we read your e-mail responses and discuss things further. Come check us out at Patreon.com/illconceived!*** ***WE WANT YOUR THOUGHTS FOR THE WORLD FAMOUS MAILBAG! Send an email with feedback about this week's episode to illconceivedpod@gmail.com*** EPISODE ART: Malcolm and Simone Collins in a press photo by Hannah Yoon AUDIO CLIPS: 18:35 – Simone Collins in a YouTube video entitled "Are You an Ambivert?" originally uploaded in November 2011 24:15 – Simone performing a cover of the Firefly theme song in a video originally uploaded to YouTube in July 2011 46:59 – Simone introduces Malcolm to the channel in a video originally uploaded to YouTube in November 2014 1:00:08 – Malcolm and Simone discuss "A Pragmatist's Take on the Red Pill" originally uploaded to YouTube in March 2020 1:16:46 – The introduction to the Based Camp episode "One Conspiracy Explains All Modern Culture (This Explains EVERYTHING)" originally uploaded to YouTube in May 2026 1:20:09 – The Bort license plate scene from "Itchy And Scratchy Land" (The Simpsons, S06E04) SOURCES: "How I Proposed to My Girlfriend on Reddit" by Malcolm Collins (Huffington Post, August 6, 2013) ArtCorgi's profile on Crunchbase "Why Many Entrepreneurs Are Turning to a ‘Search-Fund’ Model" by Glenn Hunter (D Magazine, January 9, 2017) "Scoop: Dialog, a secretive forum, plans D.C.-area campus" by Mike Allen (Axios, August 7, 2025) Simone's LinkedIn profile Malcolm's LinkedIn profile Simone's Reddit account Malcolm's Reddit account "Meet the ‘elite’ couples breeding to save mankind" by Io Dodds (The Telegraph, April 19, 2023) "About Simone and Malcolm Collins’ Smear Campaign Against Me" by Lyman Stone (Medium post, October 22, 2024) "America’s premier pronatalists on having ‘tons of kids’ to save the world: ‘There are going to be countries of old people starving to death’" by Jenny Kleeman (The Guardian, May 25, 2024) Based Camp on YouTube FOLLOW THE SHOW: Website: illconceivedpodcast.com Bluesky: ‪@illconceivedpodcast.com Tumblr: @illconceivedpod FOLLOW JOSH: Website: joshboerman.com Bluesky: @bosh.worstpossible.world Other podcast: The Worst of All Possible Worlds Stream: Traditional Scrench FOLLOW JUNE: Bluesky: @junlper.beer Other podcast: Kill The Computer Writing: June's Substack ILL CONCEIVED THEME SONG BY: Caleb (Linktree / Bluesky)

  • May 16 · 28 min

    JD Vance: The B-Side (PREVIEW)

    THIS IS A PREVIEW OF A BONUS B-SIDE EPISODE. For access to the full length version of this and every other biweekly bonus B-side, go to Patreon.com/illconceived -------------------------- The natalist arguments of people like JD Vance are increasingly being used to defend new laws rolling back bodily autonomy, and in Wyoming, a newly signed "fetal heartbeat" bill has made this connection explicit. We're talking about it, plus we read your mail about: The tendencies of fundamentalist Catholicism vs. more mainstream Catholicism and the people they tend to attract The varying cultural tendences of different ethnic Catholic traditions JD's connection to Erika Kirk and her whole deal

  • S2 · E15
    May 9 · 1 hr 39 min

    JD Vance

    The Vice President of the United States and his wife Usha are expecting their fourth baby, setting an apparent example for their fellow natalists. But just how intertwined is JD Vance with the natalist movement overall and what does it have to do with Usha’s new podcast about children’s books? This week, June and Josh dig into JD Vance’s history with conservatism and Catholicism to try to figure it out. ***WANT MORE ILL CONCEIVED? Every other week, we release B-side supplements to the main episodes where we read your e-mail responses and discuss things further. Come check us out at Patreon.com/illconceived!*** ***WE WANT YOUR THOUGHTS FOR THE WORLD FAMOUS MAILBAG! Send an email with feedback about this week's episode to illconceivedpod@gmail.com*** EPISODE ART: JD Vance in a press photo by Niall Carson for Getty Images. Born in Middletown, Ohio, Vance graduated from Ohio State University and Yale Law School, eventually working under Peter Thiel at Mithril Capital. After being elected to the United States Senate in 2022, Vance was selected by Donald Trump to serve as his running mate for the 2024 presidential election. AUDIO CLIPS: 18:51 – Donald Trump reading from 2 Corinthians as part of the America Reads the Bible special event 24:51 – JD Vance referring to Democratic opposition as "childless cat ladies" 59:39 – Usha Vance reading The Tale of Peter Rabbit by Beatrix Potter for her podcast Storytime with the Second Lady SOURCES: J. D. Vance and the Right’s Call to Have More Babies The troubling history behind JD Vance's natalism JD Vance And Peter Thiel: What To Know About The Relationship Between Trump’s VP Pick And The Billionaire What have I done? I forced my kid to listen to Usha Vance’s podcast - now she’s a fan JD Vance Repeats ‘Anti-Family’ Criticism of Democrats on Sunday Morning News Show Tour Baby Bonuses and Motherhood Medals: Why We Shouldn’t Trust the Pronatalist Movement Trump May Soon Offer a Motherhood Medal, an Idea Popularized in Nazi Germany Republicans Are Right: One Party Is ‘Anti-Family and Anti-Kid’ Usha Vance and JD Vance, Pronatalism’s Poster Couple, Are Having a 4th Kid JD Vance’s Approval Rating Plunges to New Historic Low Mayor Mamdani and Governor Hochul Announce First Four Communities to Receive Free 2-K Seats Democracy | Of Childless ‘Psychopath’ Women and ‘Replacement’: JD Vance’s Birthrate and Immigration Obsessions Have Shared History An Analysis of Happy No Snakes Day and the Deeper Implications on the Horizon for Children’s Literature and Christian Nationalist Policies in the Public School System Beyond the Nuclear Family The Role of the Nuclear Family in Capitalism With Defense of ICE, JD Vance Clarifies His Next Target: You J.D. Vance Used to Be an Atheist. What He Believes Now Is Telling. Gold Mother's Cross Wikipedia: Order of Maternal Glory Who in the USSR was awarded the ‘Mother-Heroine’ title? National Conservatism: A Statement of Principles 5% of People Detained By ICE Have Violent Convictions, 73% No Convictions FOLLOW THE SHOW: Website: illconceivedpodcast.com Bluesky: ‪@illconceivedpodcast.com Tumblr: @illconceivedpod FOLLOW JOSH: Website: joshboerman.com Bluesky: @bosh.worstpossible.world Other podcast: The Worst of All Possible Worlds Stream: Traditional Scrench FOLLOW JUNE: Bluesky: @junlper.beer Other podcast: Kill The Computer Writing: June's Substack ILL CONCEIVED THEME SONG BY: Caleb (Linktree / Bluesky)

  • April 18 · 23 min

    Ballerina Farm / Hannah Neeleman: The B-Side (PREVIEW)

    THIS IS A PREVIEW OF A BONUS B-SIDE EPISODE. For access to the full length version of this and every other biweekly bonus B-side, go to Patreon.com/illconceived -------------------------- Fox News has reported on the "problem" of teenagers not getting pregnant anymore. We're talking about it, and reading your letters because it turns out that a lot of you had a lot to say about Hannah Neeleman, including: The cultural specifics of Mormonism and how they're reflected in Ballerina Farms The sinister overtones of her husband's whole deal The economics of farm tourism vs. functional scale farming Natural births and why many people prefer them Ballerina Farm-style natalism as a reflection of European settler-colonialism As always, our babies stay winning!

  • S2 · E14
    April 11 · 1 hr 38 min

    Ballerina Farm / Hannah Neeleman

    Natalists have an ideal life and an ideal wife: rugged, individualistic, and dedicated to self-sufficiency. Perhaps nothing epitomizes this ideal better than Ballerina Farm, the popular social media account of dancer and pageant queen Hannah Neeleman that is growing into an influential direct-to-consumer food and lifestyle brand that no longer sells raw milk. This week, Josh and June look at the history of Ballerina Farm and try to understand how its strange brand of seemingly apolitical tradwifery serves as a stalking horse for the natalist movement and reactionary politics more broadly. CHECK OUT OUR RECENT PODCAST GUEST APPEARANCES! June on Anime Sickos Josh on Lions Led By Donkeys Josh on Well There's Your Problem ***WANT MORE ILL CONCEIVED? Every other week, we release B-side supplements to the main episodes where we read your e-mail responses and discuss things further. Come check us out at Patreon.com/illconceived!*** ***WE WANT YOUR THOUGHTS FOR THE WORLD FAMOUS MAILBAG! Send an email with feedback about this week's episode to illconceivedpod@gmail.com*** EPISODE ART: Hannah Neeleman in a professional headshot. After graduating from Juilliard's dance undergraduate program while pregnant, Neeleman moved to Brazil then back home to Utah, where she and her husband Daniel purchased a farm along the east side of the Wasatch Range. Her Instagram account Ballerina Farm has over 10 million followers. AUDIO CLIPS: 1:01:48 – "Strength at Every Stage" protein powder advertisement from Ballerina Farm 1:27:12 – Response to the Sunday Times article from the Ballerina Farm Instagram account SOURCES: Ballerina Farm website Ballerina Farm Instagram “Meet the queen of the ‘trad wives’ (and her eight children)” by Megan Agnew (The Sunday Times, July 20, 2024) “She Gave Birth Two Weeks Ago. Now She’s in a Beauty Pageant” by Madison Malone Kircher (The New York Times, January 30, 2024) “Tycoon or Tradwife? The Woman Behind Ballerina Farm Makes Her Own Path” by Julia Moskin (The New York Times, December 3, 2024) “The Business of Ballerina Farm” by Liz Flora (Business of Fashion, May 27, 2025) “When Ballerina Farm Comes to Town” by Erica Schwiegershausen (The Cut, September 10, 2025) “Park City Creamery to sell business to Ballerina Farm” by Katie Hatzfeld (The Park Record, December 23, 2025) “Ballerina Farm pauses raw milk sales after samples fail health tests” by Grace Doerfler (KPCW, January 29, 2026) Hannah Neeleman’s feature spread in Evie magazine “Audio Recording From Ballerina Farm Times Interview Exposes Dishonest Journalism” by Nicole Dominique (Evie, July 29, 2024) FOLLOW THE SHOW: Website: illconceivedpodcast.com Bluesky: ‪@illconceivedpodcast.com Tumblr: @illconceivedpod FOLLOW JOSH: Website: joshboerman.com Bluesky: @bosh.worstpossible.world Other podcast: The Worst of All Possible Worlds Stream: Traditional Scrench FOLLOW JUNE: Bluesky: @junlper.beer Other podcast: Kill The Computer Writing: June's Substack ILL CONCEIVED THEME SONG BY: Caleb (Linktree / Bluesky)

  • April 6 · 1 hr 48 min

    BONUS - Kill The Computer: The Smile Merchant feat. The Worst of All Possible Worlds

    We're so back. The next Ill Conceived, about Ballerina Farm, has been recorded and will drop this coming Friday. To tide you over until then, we've brought you some extra goodies. Our other shows, Josh's The Worst of All Possible Worlds and June's Kill The Computer, are doing a full crossover collaboration that we're calling Beast Week, dedicated to celebrating Jimmy "MrBeast" Donaldson. And it kicks off today. In this episode of Kill The Computer, the gang from The Worst of All Possible Worlds talked with June and Caleb about a number of videos MrBeast released in 2025. Then we dug into his theme park Beast Land, a temporary pop-up in Riyadh that was open for 45 days as part of the annual Saudi entertainment festival known as Riyadh Season. Next up, on Wednesday, Kill The Computer will be joining Josh, Brian, and A.J. on The Worst of All Possible Worlds Patreon for a premium episode about season 2 of Beast Games. We'll also upload the first half of the episode here so you can get a taste for it. Finally, on Friday, alongside new Ill Conceived we’ll be concluding Beast Week on the Kill The Computer Patreon with an in-depth conversation about what Jimmy’s been up to so far this year and where we think he might go next. Thank you as always for being our beloved babies. Love, Josh

  • March 13 · 25 min

    Tucker Carlson: The End of Men: The B-Side (PREVIEW)

    THIS IS A PREVIEW OF A BONUS B-SIDE EPISODE. For access to the full length version of this and every other biweekly bonus B-side, go to Patreon.com/illconceived -------------------------- We try to clarify some of our thoughts last week on weight and health, then dig a bit more into some claims made by the Bro Scientists. Plus, June gets a bit loopy and we spend a solid 10+ minutes on ball tanning. We also read your emails about: Avoiding plastics because your dad is afraid of estrogen Jobs with lots of physical activity that are bad for your health Finally, here's a link to the GIF that June was cracking up about.

  • S2 · E13
    March 8 · 1 hr 42 min

    Tucker Carlson: The End of Men

    Testosterone is lowering. Sperm counts are shrinking. Men, a once proud and noble half of the human race, are accelerating down the road to extinction. So say many natalists, who tie their fear of demographic decline into their anxieties about gender. But how much of what they claim has any basis in truth whatsoever? This week, June and Josh take a look at Tucker Carlson's 2022 Fox Nation short "The End of Men" to see how it both set a template for and propagated narratives about declining masculinity that have since become ubiquitous. ***WANT MORE ILL CONCEIVED? Every other week, we release B-side supplements to the main episodes where we read your e-mail responses and discuss things further. Come check us out at Patreon.com/illconceived!*** ***WE WANT YOUR THOUGHTS FOR THE WORLD FAMOUS MAILBAG! Send an email with feedback about this week's episode to illconceivedpod@gmail.com*** EPISODE ART: Tucker Carlson in an ABC News press photo. After spending years as a mid-level host of various news shows, Carlson became a leading star of Fox News' primetime lineup with the debut of Tucker Carlson Tonight in 2016. Carlson was fired by the network in 2023 for spreading falsehoods and misleading video about the January 6, 2020 riots on the United States Capitol and has since become a leading voice of right-wing new media. SOURCES: Why Tucker Carlson's 'The End of Men' Is So Disturbing Why Are Testosterone Levels Decreasing? Secular trends in testosterone- findings from a large state-mandate care provider Environmental Toxins Likely Cause of 50% Decline in Global Sperm Count Male fertility is declining – studies show that environmental toxins could be a reason Low t and fertility Low Testosterone & Fertility Endocrine Disruptor What are endocrine disruptors? What Are Ultra Processed Foods? How Diet Impacts Health Seeding doubt: The truth about cooking oils Trump executive order on a weed killer chemical didn’t do RFK Jr. any favors RFK Jr. post agreeing with Trumps EO Red Light Therapy: Benefits, Safety and Things to Know Is Eating Raw Eggs Bad? Cold Plunge Benefits: The Science Behind Ice Baths for Recovery Beef Tallow: Doctors Group Shares Consumer Health Alert Warning “Unapologetically Bomb” Whitehouse post The Myth of the New Man in Italian Fascist Ideology FOLLOW THE SHOW: Website: illconceivedpodcast.com Bluesky: ‪@illconceivedpodcast.com Tumblr: @illconceivedpod FOLLOW JOSH: Website: joshboerman.com Bluesky: @bosh.worstpossible.world Other podcast: The Worst of All Possible Worlds Stream: Traditional Scrench FOLLOW JUNE: Bluesky: @junlper.beer Other podcast: Kill The Computer Writing: June's Substack ILL CONCEIVED THEME SONG BY: Caleb (Linktree / Bluesky)

  • February 28 · 36 min

    Jeffrey Epstein: The B-Side (PREVIEW)

    THIS IS A PREVIEW OF A BONUS B-SIDE EPISODE. For access to the full length version of this and every other biweekly bonus B-side, go to Patreon.com/illconceived -------------------------- The new CEO of Xbox is worried about birthrates and thinks AI might have the solution. We're talking about it, plus we read your letters from the Jeffrey Epstein episode regarding: How "pregnant people" provides more specificity as a term than "pregnant women" and why natalists don't like it The emails that Sarah Ferguson, the then-wife of then-Prince Andrew, sent to Epstein How Epstein associate Nick Bostrom's obsession with superintelligent AI reflects a faulty consensus among tech industry types Also, here's a link to the official music video for Jimmy MacMillan's song "Ain't Nothing To Talk About" in its entirety.

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