Gloves Off

Gloves Off with Stephen Marche

Gloves Off is about the threat to Canada’s sovereignty and how the country can thrive in the new world disorder. Because it’s not just about surviving as a nation. It’s about winning. Hosted by journalist and author Stephen Marche.

It’s been a year of the old world order falling apart. The rules-based international order is over. But it’s also been a year of great unthinkable change—change to the way Canada operates, who it trusts, and who it fears. This presents an opportunity for Canada to move away from its decades-long dependency on the US towards something new: a third pole of middle power alliances. Last season on Gloves Off, we wanted to survive as a nation. The question was: Are we going to make it? This season, we’re answering the question: How do we win?

Visit gloves-off.ca for more research behind the issues and watch our aftershow Cross Check.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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23 episodes
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S2 · E12
Yesterday · 41 min
Trade Bazooka and Other Economic Cards: Canada, Europe and New Middle Power Alliances Moving Away from U.S.
In this extended interview, Stephen Marche speaks with Anthony Dworkin of the European Council on Foreign Relations about whether Canada and Europe can build a new middle power alliance in a world increasingly shaped by U.S. and Chinese power. Dworkin explains Europe’s “trade bazooka,” the tools available to resist economic coercion, and how Canada could work with Europe and other like-minded countries on trade, defence, technology, energy and strategic autonomy. ECFR Papers Referenced: -Brussels hold’em: European cards against Trumpian coercion -Beijing hold’em: European cards against Chinese coercion Excerpt of interview originally featured in Ep 2 "How Canada Wins at Alliances" Visit our website-gloves-off.ca-for more research behind the issues from the Canadian Shield Institute including an interactive map outlining the number of international agreements Canada has made since Carney took office and a explanation of variable geometry Follow us on YouTube Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
S2 · E11
September 1 · 39 min
What's Behind Google Maps renaming Lake Ontario: The Politicization of the Tech Oligarchs Who Want to Break Democracy: Extended Interview with Gil Durán
In this extended interview, Stephen Marche speaks with Gil Durán, author of The Nerd Reich about Silicon Valley’s radical turn against democracy. They explore the rise of tech oligarchs, the political power of billionaires, the weaponization of social media, and what Canada can do to reduce its dependence on American technology. Excerpt of interview originally featured in Ep 7 "How Canada Beats Tech Influence" Visit our website—gloves-off.ca—for more research behind the issues from the Canadian Shield Institute including: an analysis of what some of America's largest technology groups are asking for when it comes to CUSMA renegotiations Follow us on YouTube Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
S2 · E10
August 26 · 34 min
From CANADALAND: Is Carney Chinamaxxing?
From our Canadian podcast friends at Canadaland: As Canada inches closer to China’s “global swagger” to escape the US’s orbit, do we even know who we’re dealing with? Host Noor Azrieh sits down with Jonathan Cheng, The Wall Street Journal‘s China Bureau Chief, a Canadian who’s been based in Beijing since 2019, to get an inside look at China’s current confidence, its trade posture, and what Beijing actually thinks of Canada. For more go to Canadaland Episode originally aired May 26, 2026 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
S2 · E9
August 25 · 1 hr 8 min
Canada-US Trade War: What Life with Reduced Trade with America Would Look Like
In this extended interview, economist Dan Ciuriak speaks with Stephen Marche about what a trade war with the United States would actually mean for Canada—and why the bigger opportunity may be building new markets, strengthening our economy, and taking control of our digital future. Visit our website—gloves-off.ca—for more research behind the issues including four charts illustrating how Canada’s trade exports are diversifying beyond the United States Follow us on YouTube Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
S2 · E8
August 19 · 45 min
What Are We Fighting For?
Season 2 wraps with a look at what the future could hold for a middle power alliance and what Canada’s role might be in it. The people applauding Carney’s Davos speech were the same people who built and ran the system that led to Brexit, Trump, and more. How can middle powers win without returning to globalization and the same old system? How can they not just gain power but exert that power, and to what ends? These questions and more are considered by guests Alastair Campbell, a longtime British politico who served in the Tony Blair administration and now co-hosts The Rest Is Politics podcast; historian Rutger Bregman, author of Utopia For Realists and head of The School for Moral Ambition; and Julianne Smith, former United States Permanent Representative to NATO. Featuring (in order of appearance): Julianne Smith, Alastair Campbell, Rutger Bregman Also visit our website—gloves-off.ca—for more research behind the issues from the Canadian Shield Institute including: a linguistic analysis of how the concept of "sovereignty" has changed over time, based on how it has been used in the House of Commons since 1900. Follow us on YouTube where you can watch our aftershow Cross Check that drops each Thursday with Vass Bednar and Jon Shell Rate and review us wherever you listen to podcasts and/or e-mail us info@glovesoffpodcast.ca. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
S2 · E7
August 12 · 28 min
How Canada Beats Tech Influence
Host Stephen Marche traces the rise of a global right-wing influence project — funded by tech billionaires like Elon Musk and philosophically rooted in anti-democratic thinkers — that is actively working to end liberal democracy worldwide…and Canada is not immune. Paris Marx (author of Hyperscale, and host of the Tech Won't Save Us podcast) and Gil Duran (author of Nerd Reich: Silicon Valley Fascism and the War on Democracy) join to ponder if tech is incompatible with democracy, and to envision a path forward for the enduring sustainability of democratic institutions. Featuring (in order of appearance): Aalia Elachi, Paris Marx & Gil Duran Also visit our website—gloves-off.ca—for more research behind the issues from the Canadian Shield Institute including: an analysis of what some of America's largest technology groups are asking for when it comes to CUSMA renegotiations Follow us on YouTube where you can watch our aftershow Cross Check that drops each Thursday with Vass Bednar and Jon Shell Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
S2 · E6
August 5 · 33 min
How Canada Wins at Tech
Like most of the world, Canada overrelies on and is beholden to American digital entities like Google and Amazon. But now movements are underfoot, in Europe especially, to decouple from the American tech giants. Host Stephen Marche explores how those efforts could inform the growth of a native Canadian tech sovereignty with Cristina Caffara, a driving force behind Eurostack; Margarethe Vestager, former European Commissioner for Competition; and author Tim Wu (The Age of Extraction: How Tech Platforms Conquered the Economy and Threaten Our Future Prosperity). Featuring (in order of appearance): Judge Kimberly Prost, Tim Wu, Margrethe Vestager & Cristina Caffarra Also visit our website—gloves-off.ca—for more research behind the issues from the Canadian Shield Institute including: what would happen if overnight we suddenly lost all access to American tech as told through an infographic Follow us on YouTube where you can watch our aftershow Cross Check that drops each Thursday with Vass Bednar and Jon Shell Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
S2 · E5
July 29 · 30 min
How Canada Wins at Defence
As recent events in Ukraine, Russia, and Iran have demonstrated, the nature of modern warfare is changing fast (think: drones). Canada will get left behind if it doesn’t start innovating quickly. Host Stephen Marche explores the advent of drone warfare with Tim Mak, Kyiv-based publisher of The Counteroffensive; and Cameron Chell, a Canadian defence tech entrepreneur at Draganfly, shares how the Canadian drone industry can drive technological innovation, not just in the defence sphere but also in a multitude of other uses that will bolster the country’s economy. Featuring (in order of appearance): Brittney Shki-Giizis, Tim Mak & Cameron Chell Also visit our website—gloves-off.ca—for more research behind the issues from the Canadian Shield Institute including a Canadian history of dual usage technologies and a chart that tries to imagine the sheer scale of the military budget. Follow us on YouTube where you can watch our aftershow Cross Check that drops each Thursday with Vass Bednar and Jon Shell Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
S2 · E4
July 22 · 28 min
How Canada’s Economy Can Thrive
In part two of how to build a thriving economy, Stephen Marche weighs the tension between maintaining economic efficiency—making convenient trade deals for short term gain—and building economic resilience—an economy less reliant on external partners. He first speaks with Brazilian economist Monica de Bolle about the drawbacks of her country’s trade relationships with China and America. Then economists John Rapley and Dan Ciuriak outline their visions for building Canada’s economic resilience, overcoming complacency, stimulating innovation, and restructuring investment. Featuring (in order of appearance): Robert Mackalski, Monica de Bolle, John Rapley and Dan Ciuriak For this episode, we have two case studies examining where Canada's economy could thrive, one on quantum computing and one on aluminum. Visit our website—gloves-off.ca for more research behind the issues. Follow us on YouTube where you can watch our aftershow Cross Check with Vass Bednar of The Canadian Shield Institute and Jon Shell of Social Capital Partners Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
S2 · E3
July 15 · 28 min
How Canada Wins at Trade
First episode of a two-part look at Canada’s economy and the opportunity to thrive in a new world order. With CUSMA being renegotiated at the moment, Stephen Marche reviews Canada’s trade relationship with the United States and explores what some consider the drawbacks of economic efficiency: making convenient trade deals for short term gain. Economist Dan Ciuriak makes the case for doing away with the country’s automotive industry, while Flavio Volpe (President of the Automotive Parts Manufacturers' Association) strongly disagrees. And Australian economist Huw McKay describes how his country abandoned car manufacturing and developed robust trading relationships within the Pacific Rim. Featuring (in order of appearance): Paula Ambra, Dan Ciuriak, Flavio Volpe, Huw McKay Visit our website—gloves-off.ca—for more research behind the issues including a chart illustrating how Canada’s trade exports are diversifying beyond the United States and Canada's automotive sector value-add problem. Follow us on YouTube where you can watch our aftershow Cross Check that drops each Thursday with Vass Bednar and Jon Shell Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
S2 · E2
July 8 · 31 min
How Canada Wins at Alliances
If a middle powers alliance could create a third pole of power to offset China and the United States, what would that look like in practical terms? What kind of alliance would enable Canada and other middle powers to thrive in a new world order? Host Stephen Marche catches up on Carney’s latest alliance-building moves with former Canadian Diplomat Colin Robertson, and learns from Anthony Dworkin of the European Council on Foreign Relations about how the EU has leaned on strategies like a trade bazooka and a unified defence strategy in Greenland. Featuring (in order of appearance): Ukaleq Slettemark, Colin Robertson and Anthony Dworkin Visit our website—gloves-off.ca—for more research behind the issues including an interactive map outlining the number of international agreements Canada has made since Carney took office and a explanation of variable geometry, both from the Canadian Shield Institute. Follow us on YouTube where you can watch our aftershow Cross Check that drops each Thursday with Vass Bednar and Jon Shell Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
S2 · E1
July 1 · 27 min
The Rupture
A clear eyed assessment of Mark Carney’s vision of middle powers creating a third pole of power, providing alternatives to a fraying reliance on the United States. Since his famous speech at Davos, he has been travelling the world meeting with likeminded politicians to shore up support. But the reception to his idea has raised doubts in Canada. Host Stephen Marche hears bipartisan caution from former Canadian Foreign Ministers Peter MacKay and John Manley, while former Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull echoes a chorus of approval heard among many global leaders. Subscribe & follow us on YouTube where you can watch our aftershow Cross Check with Vass Bednar and Jon Shell Thursday. Also visit our website—gloves-off.ca—for more research behind the issues from the Canadian Shield Institute including its Glossary of Trade War Jargon and U.S. Policy Timeline Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
June 25 · 1 min
The Gloves Come Off Again, Canada Day
Gloves Off is about the threat to Canada’s sovereignty and how the country can thrive in the new world disorder. Because it’s not just about surviving as a nation. It’s about winning. Hosted by journalist and author Stephen Marche. The Gloves come off Canada Day, 2026. Subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts and follow us on YouTube where you can watch our aftershow Cross Check with Vass Bednar and Jon Shell. Also visit our website—gloves-off.ca —for more research behind the issues from the Canadian Shield Institute. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
S1 · E9
Aug 19, 2025 · 27 min
Stephen Marche & Margaret Atwood Extended Interview
In this extended interview, Margaret Atwood joins Stephen Marche for a wide-ranging, sharp, and often darkly funny conversation on what we can learn from the past when Canadian sovereignty has been threatened by America; how this moment is exceptional; what we might expect in the future. From draft dodgers to free trade, red bonnets to AI servers, Atwood weighs in on where we are—and where we might be headed. Atwood brings sharp insight and surprising optimism to a moment of national reckoning. A must-listen on sovereignty, survival, and what Canada needs to protect itself from the storm next door. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
S1 · E8
Aug 12, 2025 · 38 min
What Does The New Normal Look Like?
Over the past seven episodes, we’ve tracked Canada’s shocking, painful, and necessary awakening. The threat from America is no longer theoretical—it’s here, it’s real, and we’re not ready. But something else is happening too. Canadians are responding. Travel boycotts. A rise in patriotism. A new spirit of sovereignty. Because our old relationship with America is over. Our final question to close the series: What does the new normal look like? In this episode, Stephen Marche speaks with two people who have seen the future from different angles: Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist and autocracy expert, Anne Applebaum, and legendary author, Margaret Atwood. Together, they help us sketch out the “new normal”—a world caught between democracy and authoritarianism, and where Canada fits into this new world order. This is an episode about what’s at stake, what can be built, and why we can’t go back. Featuring (in order of appearance): Anne Applebaum, Margaret Atwood Watch an extended version of Stephen's interview with Margaret Atwood on YouTube August 19th. Rate and review us wherever you listen to podcasts and/or e-mail us info@glovesoffpodcast.ca Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
S1 · E7
Aug 5, 2025 · 29 min
How Do We Not Lose The Information War?
In 2013, a Russian journalist walked into a St. Petersburg startup looking for a job. What he found was the frontline of a new kind of war—an information war fought not with bullets but with online chaos. Today, those tactics have gone global. Online disinformation floods our social feeds, shapes our politics, and fractures our societies. Authoritarian states are waging an invisible war against democracies like Canada, and we’re dangerously unprepared. Stephen Marche speaks with University of Waterloo's Bessma Momani and Taiwanese fact-checking pioneer Billion Lee to ask the hard questions: How can we stop losing the information war? Do we even stand a chance? Featuring (in order of appearance): Andrei Soshnikov, Bessma Momani & Billion Lee Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
S1 · E6
Jul 29, 2025 · 26 min
How Do We Fight Back?
What if we end up in the nightmare scenario: America invades Canada and our military isn't strong enough to resist. Canada gets annexed by force. How do we fight back? What would a Canadian insurgency look like? Stephen Marche explores the unthinkable: a military occupation of Canada and the resistance that would surely follow. He speaks with International Security scholar, Aisha Ahmad. We also meet former IRA member, Breige Brownlee, to understand how ordinary people become freedom fighters—and why the most powerful armies in the world can't stop them. It’s not fiction if the threat is detectable... Featuring (in order of appearance): Breige Brownlee, Aisha Ahmad Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
S1 · E5
Jul 22, 2025 · 31 min
How Do We Defend Ourselves?
For most countries, the military is key to national identity. But Canada's identity has been tied to military contributions to the global order and peacekeeping. Now that's all changed. The world is heating. The North is thawing. The South is melting. How do we defend Canada and not get overtaken? Stephen Marche heads to the Arctic with Canadian Ranger Neil Kigutaq and speaks with Retired Major General Scott Clancy and Finnish security expert Matti Pesu about how Canada can build up its military and what a whole-of-society defence approach looks like. With military apathy at home and growing instability abroad, it’s time to ask: What will it take for Canadians to finally take our defence seriously? Featuring (in order of appearance): MCpl Neil Kigutaq, Major General (ret) Scott Clancy & Matti Pesu Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
S1 · E4
Jul 15, 2025 · 24 min
How Much Can We Learn from Ukraine?
Living next to a dangerous country is new to us but many countries bordering authoritarian states have a lot of experience. Ukraine has lived in the shadow of a monster its entire existence. What can they teach us? Ukrainian refugee Viktoriia recalls fleeing war-torn Kherson—offering a sobering reminder of how quickly peace can vanish. Lt. Col. (Ret.) Alexander Vindman and war correspondent Tim Mak unpack what Ukraine got right, what they missed, and what Canada can learn from their ongoing war with Russia. Can we recognize the warning signs of annexation and authoritarianism? Or will we look away—until it’s too late? Featuring (in order of appearance): Viktoriia, Alexander Vindman & Tim Mak Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
S1 · E3
Jul 8, 2025 · 30 min
How Do We Not Go Broke?
A Canadian toy company is on the brink because of US tariffs. Millions in unsold stock. But this isn’t just one company’s problem—it’s Canada’s. Stephen Marche digs into the economic war we’re already in with the US. How can we fight against an economy ten times our size, where the tariff goal posts keep moving, and where any brokered deal is a tweet away from becoming meaningless? What are new approaches to doing business in today's climate? Featuring bold ideas from business owner, Zita Cobb, and Chair of Social Capital Partners, Jon Shell. This episode looks at how to build the Canadian economy without dependence on a superpower in chaos. Featuring (in order of appearance): "Jane", Canadian toy company owner, Zita Cobb & Jon Shell Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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