EducationBusinessManagement

Getting Smart Podcast

Getting Smart

This podcast has over 500 episodes highlighting developing trends in K-12 education, postsecondary and lifelong learning. Each week, Getting Smart team members interview students, leading authors, experts and practitioners in research, tech, entrepreneurship and leadership to bring listeners innovative and actionable strategies in education leadership.

Be sure to also check out GettingSmart.com to stay on the cutting edge of innovations in learning.

Play

Open in

31 episodes
Avg 43 min
English

Episodes 31

Newest Oldest Longest

All20 Unplayed20 In progress0 Played0

Counted on this page — what you have heard stays on this device, so it is not something the list can be paged by.

Today · 46 min· Video
What Students Want Principals to Know | The MAPS Media Institute
What do students want principals to know about feeling heard, and feeling safe enough to fail and try again? Mason Pashia talks with Clare Ann Harff, executive director of MAPS Media Institute, and MAPS students Mikaela Doney and Laurel De Groot. MAPS gives young people across Montana free, professional media arts education, with studios in the Bitterroot Valley, Helena and near the Fort Belknap Indian Community, plus client projects where students make real media for their communities. Mikaela and Laurel share what they've built, what they've learned about themselves, and their advice for principals and superintendents. 📬 Free weekly newsletter: https://www.gettingsmart.com/newsletter/ 🎧 More episodes + transcripts: https://www.gettingsmart.com/podcast/ 🍎 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/getting-smart-podcast/id1017984086 · 🟢 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2cUXLWi6LxdMxihgzzTntf Links MAPS Media Institute: https://mapsmediainstitute.com/ Education Reimagined: https://education-reimagined.org/
Wednesday · 42 min· Video
Learner Wallets for Identity, Discovery and Pathways | Jacksón Smith
Ten years ago, a small team asked a wild question: could you actually pay people to learn? That question sent them around the world, and eventually to building the infrastructure behind digital credentials used by Scouts, schools, and employers everywhere. In this episode, host Mason Pashia talks with Jacksón Smith, co-founder and CTO of the Learning Economy Foundation, about why credentials alone aren't very persuasive on their own, what it means to treat data portability as a public good, and the three verbs, collect, understand, navigate, behind their open-source app LearnCard. They also get into peer endorsements, why stories carry more weight than certificates, and LearnCard's new "Learner GPS," a Google Maps for figuring out where to go next in your education or career. Resources Jacksón's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jacksonsmithcurtis Learning Economy Foundation: https://www.learningeconomy.io/ LearnCard: https://www.learncard.com/ "Why Learner Wallets Will Fail (And How to Make Sure They Don't)": https://www.gettingsmart.com/2026/01/06/why-learner-wallets-will-fail-and-how-to-make-sure-they-dont/
October 16 · 48 min· Video
20 Years Later, a Former Advisor Asks His Old Students What Stuck | Andrew Frishman on the Advisory
What actually sticks with students twenty years after high school? Andrew Frishman, co-executive director of Big Picture Learning and host of the new podcast The Advisory, joins Mason Pashia to talk about reconnecting with the Met High School Class of 2006. He is joined by Natasha Luigui, a Met alum, and Daniela Moraes, a current Met student in Providence, Rhode Island. They talk about advisory, exhibitions, internships, and why test scores aren't the whole picture of student outcomes. Andrew's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewfrishman/ Big Picture Learning: https://www.bigpicture.org/ The Met High School: https://www.themethighschool.org/ For the blog Resources, you can also link Getting Smart's own Met school page: https://www.gettingsmart.com/school/metropolitan-regional-career-and-technical-center-met/
October 14 · 40 min
Can AI Make Math Class More Social? | Britte Haugan Cheng & Ann Edwards
Can AI make math class more social? Britte Haugan Cheng (MenloEDU) and Ann Edwards (WestEd) of the AIMS Collaboratory join Nate McClennen to talk about how developers, researchers, teachers, and students build math edtech together, why implementation is harder than it looks, and what a network can share with the rest of the field. Links AIMS Collaboratory: https://www.aimscollaboratory.org/ Inventory of Public Goods: https://www.aimscollaboratory.org/resources AIMS EduData: https://digitalpromise.org/initiative/advancing-innovative-math-solutions-aims-home/ BUILD: https://build.org/about/ NCTM: https://www.nctm.org/
October 9 · 58 min· Video
Catching Up: Can AI Help Students Connect With People?
Can AI help students connect with people instead of replacing them? What does a real PISA question look like? And why is microschool research so hard to trust? Nate McClennen and Mason Pashia catch up on a new Christensen Institute report on building AI that connects students to people, plus a closer look at PISA, including Mason's attempt at a sample question. They also get into a new bipartisan push for an education R&D agency, what Arizona's ESA spending shows, why student motivation matters even more with AI in the picture, and a new public boarding school in Alabama. Stay for the song at the end. Links mentioned NEED Act reintroduction: https://www.bennet.senate.gov/2026/09/17/bennet-van-hollen-tillis-reintroduce-bipartisan-bill-to-boost-innovation-in-education/ Arizona ESA FY2026 Q3 report: https://www.azed.gov/sites/default/files/2026/06/ESA%20FY26%20Q3%20Executive%20_%20%20Legislative%20Report.pdf Prosocial Possibilities (Christensen Institute): https://www.christenseninstitute.org/publication/prosocial-possibilities/ MySky: https://newpublic.substack.com/p/meet-the-algorithm-you-can-actually Schools Have a Motivation Problem (The 74): https://www.the74million.org/article/schools-have-a-motivation-problem-ai-is-making-it-impossible-to-ignore/ The Disengaged Teen episode: https://www.gettingsmart.com/podcast/jenny-anderson-and-rebecca-winthrop-on-the-disengaged-teen/ Alabama School of Healthcare Sciences: https://alabamanewscenter.com/2025/10/20/alabama-school-of-healthcare-sciences-brings-transformative-approach-to-high-school-education/ The Hogeweyk: https://www.bethecareconcept.com/en/hogeweyk-dementia-village-hogeweyk-netherlands/
October 7 · 53 min· Video
The Problem With Letter Grades Isn't the Grades | Bill Zima & Michelle McCann
Letter grades get a lot of the blame when schools try to change how they assess learning. Two of the editors of a new book on competency-based education explain what they've seen up close. Nate McClennen and Rebecca Midles talk with Bill Zima (Director of Implementation, Marzano Academies) and Michelle McCann (Professional Development Associate, Marzano Resources). Bill and Michelle are two of the four editors of Competency-Based Practices: Factors for Successful Implementation, and Nate and Rebecca co-wrote a chapter in it. They talk about what competency-based education means, why it's so hard to implement well, and where letter grades fit in. Each guest also shares one sentence of advice for any school or district leader thinking about making the move. Resources Competency-Based Practices: Factors for Successful Implementation: https://www.amazon.com/Competency-Based-Practices-Successful-Implementation-competency-based/dp/1965768024 Marzano Resources: https://www.marzanoresources.com/books-videos.html FullScale: https://www.fullscalelearning.org/
October 2 · 27 min· Video
Why Entrepreneurship Is for Everyone | Live at the Uncharted Learning Summit
Live from the Uncharted Learning Summit in Chicago, Victoria Andrews and Shawnee Caruthers reflect on a community built around one big idea: entrepreneurship is for everyone. Through conversations with alumni, teachers, district leaders, and volunteers, they explore how Uncharted Learning's programs help students discover who they are, not just what they can build. You'll hear from a member of the very first cohort, a teacher who resigned and then got her passion for teaching back, a director whose former middle schooler is now a CEO and policy advocate, and a community champion who makes it all possible for teachers. Victoria and Shawnee also dig into the joy of pitch night, the lessons in rejection, and why word of mouth from students is the strongest endorsement a program can get. Featured voices: Mika Chang, Connor Boundy, Alan Carranza, Paula Chilton, Ida Pascal, Megan Gordon, Triana Williams, Susan Hohlman, Jason Roemer, and Jackson Greenstone Links Hear all 14 full interviews from the summit: https://www.gettingsmart.com/podcast/live-at-the-uncharted-learning-summit-why-entrepreneurship-is-for-everyone/ Bring Uncharted Learning to your school or community: https://www.unchartedlearning.org/contact
September 29 · 31 min
They're Rethinking High School | Transformation Journey: Bostonia Global
A K-8 district isn't supposed to have a high school. Bostonia Global built one anyway, and rethought what high school could look like in the process. In this episode, Rebecca Midles talks with Nerel Winter (CEO of Bostonia Global), Johanna Simko (Principal of Bostonia Global High School), and David Rios (a Bostonia Global alumnus) about designing an in-district dependent charter high school from scratch, one built around competency-based learning, a K-12 "world of work" curriculum, and an advisory model where every adult in the building is also a mentor. They talk through what it actually took to hire and train teachers for a school unlike anything else in their district, how they built a transcript that speaks to both universities and employers, and what David's own path, from a bilingual K-5 program to a UC Riverside campus, looks like from the inside.
September 25 · 39 min· Video
What $600 Million Buys You in School Redesign | Mike Posthumus
A school in Singapore just spent over $600 million reimagining what a classroom should be, and it's not what you'd expect. Mike Posthumus, learning design principal at Fielding International, walks through how Singapore American School rebuilt its campus around a real learning model instead of the traditional "cells and bells" classroom design, and why that distinction changes everything about how kids actually learn. He also shares how a much smaller, budget-friendly version of the same idea transformed a public school district in Cranston.
September 23 · 46 min· Video
Why Being a Principal Has Become Impossible | Lindsay Whorton
The job of "principal" has quietly become impossible, one person expected to coach every teacher, be the expert in every subject, set the vision, and be present in the community, all at once. In this episode, host Nate McClennen talks with Dr. Lindsay Whorton, president of the Holdsworth Center and author of "A New School Leadership Architecture," about why the traditional principal role has become unsustainable, and what school systems can do instead. Lindsay has worked with 89 school districts across Texas, growing the Holdsworth Center from just 7 districts since 2017, and lays out a four-level leadership framework built to redistribute the workload without losing accountability. They get into why 80% of principals still believe they're solely responsible for coaching every teacher in their building, despite an unrealistic span of control, what a real case study of this framework looks like in practice, and how school leaders can start figuring out what only they can actually do. Guest Links Lindsay's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lindsay-whorton-9685aa26/ The Holdsworth Center: https://holdsworthcenter.org/
September 16 · 51 min· Video
Khan Academy's founder on AI: "Hope isn't a strategy" | Sal Khan
Will AI upend education as we know it, or just get absorbed into the systems we already have? In this episode, host Nate McClennen talks with Sal Khan, founder and CEO of Khan Academy, about where AI is actually headed in schools, in the workforce, and in daily life. Sal shares his real thesis on the so-called "AI jobs apocalypse" and what he thinks the next five years actually look like. They talk through durable skills, what they really are, why they're hard to measure, and how Sal's new Khan-TED Institute is trying to change that. Sal also shares how his own thinking on AI and learning has evolved, and what he tells his own kids about navigating all of this right now. Guest Links Sal's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/khanacademy/ Sal's X (Twitter): https://x.com/salkhanacademy Khan Academy: https://www.khanacademy.org/ Schoolhouse.World: https://schoolhouse.world/
September 9 · 45 min· Video
Are schools collecting too much data? | Dr. Kelly Page
Digital badges and credentials promise to finally show what a learner actually knows. Dr. Kelly Page says that promise has a dark side nobody's talking about. In this episode, host Mason Pashia talks with Dr. Kelly Page, a social design ethnographer and author of "When Credentials Cause Harm: Unpacking the Risks of Verifiable Learning and Work Records." Kelly has spent years documenting how well-intentioned credentialing systems can end up excluding, surveilling, or flattening the very people they're supposed to empower. They get into who actually controls a learner's record, why some of the most marginalized communities are also the most wary of the video documentation these systems rely on, and why more data isn't the same as the right data. Kelly makes the case for a future built on self-sovereign data, where students and workers, not districts or vendors, own and control their own records, and shares practical advice for school leaders on what to ask before adopting any new credentialing technology. Guest Links Kelly's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/drkellypage/ Live What You Love (LWYL Studio): lwylstudio.com When Credentials Cause Harm (book): https://www.amazon.com/When-Credentials-Cause-Harm-Verifiable/dp/1969861029
September 4 · 57 min· Video
Catching Up: Meta's Billion-Dollar Payout, AI Search Bias, and Fixing Student Voice
In this episode of Catching Up, Nate McClennen and Mason Pashia get into what happens after a $2.5 billion settlement lands, and whether "fund real life" is actually a better answer than another wave of mental health apps. They also talk through a study showing AI models recommend completely different schools depending on which one you ask, and why that's a bigger deal than it sounds. From there, the conversation turns to a real tension in AI and education right now: efficiency versus efficacy. Nate makes the case that the real opportunity isn't faster lesson planning, it's building AI tools around what learning science already tells us works, things like spaced practice, real-time feedback, and targeted instruction. He also breaks down a simple way to think about how school systems actually learn, separating implementation, innovation, and continuous improvement, and why mixing them up is often where districts get stuck. Mason brings a deep dive on moving past tokenistic student surveys toward real intergenerational co-design, with some genuinely striking examples, a student-drafted AI policy bill that passed 82 to 16, and the Kentucky Student Voice Team's constitutional lawsuit against their own state. They wrap up with something a little lighter: a living room full of guitars at a family wedding, and a pottery shop in Illinois that's run entirely on the honor system, two small reminders of what real human connection still looks like. Links If Social Media Companies Owe Billions, Let's Fund What Kids Need Taylor Lorenz in the Guardian PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP https://whiteboardadvisors.docsend.com/view/aka3amitbucqs8f7 Kentucky Student Voice Team (KSVT) Youth Power Fund
September 2 · 32 min· Video
Janice K. Jackson Ran Chicago Public Schools. Here's What She'd Change. | Janice K. Jackson
Public education is facing a moment it hasn't seen in decades: shrinking enrollment, an explosion of school choice options, and real questions about who should even be in charge of a district's decisions. In this episode, host Mason Pashia talks with Dr. Janice K. Jackson, former CEO of Chicago Public Schools, the nation's third-largest school district, and current executive director of the Aspen Institute's Education and Society program. Janice led CPS under mayoral control and has watched the district's shift toward a hybrid, partially elected school board unfold in real time, all while Denver debates moving in the opposite direction. Mason and Janice start with technology and screen time, why Janice thinks blanket phone bans miss the real issue in classrooms, and why she worries restrictive policies often land hardest on low-income students. They talk through what it actually looks like to involve parents in decisions rather than just informing them after the fact. The conversation then turns to governance. Janice explains the real trade-offs between mayoral control and an elected school board, why she believes accountability gets harder as more people are put in charge of a district, and what she's watching in Chicago's board election this fall. They close by digging into the rise of microschools and alternative school models, the tension between competency-based learning and a transcript system that hasn't meaningfully changed in over a century, and what public schools can realistically do with underused buildings as enrollment declines. Guest Links Face the Nation CBS Interview — https://www.cbsnews.com/news/transcript-janice-jackson-on-face-the-nation-january-31-2021/ The Education Equation Podcast/Interview — https://youtu.be/6g7b6Nz_XXw Aspen Institute Education & Society Program — https://www.aspeninstitute.org/programs/education-and-society-program/
August 26 · 50 min· Video
The $1,700 School Tax Credit Public Schools Should Be Talking About | Antonio Parés
A new federal tax credit is launching in January 2027 that could bring real money into public schools, and most districts don't even know it exists yet. In this episode, host Nate McClennen talks with Antonio Parés, founder and principal of Walnut Hill Workshop, about the Education Freedom Tax Credit, also known as the Federal Tax Credit for Scholarships, or FTCS. The program lets any taxpayer redirect up to $1,700 to a scholarship-granting organization, or SGO, at zero net cost to themselves. Antonio breaks down how the credit actually works for donors, how school districts can take advantage of it, and which fees and expenses qualify. He makes the case that public education, not just private schools, is in a strong position to benefit from this program, since districts already have the donor relationships, trust, and infrastructure that most new scholarship organizations are starting from scratch. Nate and Antonio also dig into the still-unresolved 90/10 rule, which will determine how much of every donated dollar has to go directly to scholarships versus administrative costs, why shared SGO infrastructure across districts might make sense, and what concrete steps superintendents, school board members, and district leaders should be taking right now, well before Treasury's final guidance comes out in September. Whether you're new to this topic or already tracking it closely, this conversation lays out what's known, what's still uncertain, and how to start preparing. Learn more about Antonio's work at Walnut Hill Workshop: https://www.linkedin.com/company/walnut-hill-workshop/ Related reading: "Want Federal Tax Credit Money for Public Schools? Here's What to Do Now" (The 74): https://www.the74million.org/article/want-federal-tax-credit-money-for-public-schools-heres-what-to-do-now/
August 19 · 32 min· Video
Are We Designing Schools for Systems or for People? | Jane Shore
Dr. Jane Shore is an education researcher, school co-founder, and author of "People-Based Learning: The Future of Learning is Human" (Routledge, 2026). She joins host Rebecca Midles to talk about her three-part framework, connect, reflect, and affect, and why the future of education depends on human connection, not just technology. Jane is the founder of School of Thought PHL, a school built at the intersection of learning science, neuroscience, and visual thinking. Jane's Book: https://www.routledge.com/People-Based-Learning-The-Future-of-Learning-is-Human/Shore/p/book/9781041089858 Jane's School (School of Thought PHL): https://revolutionschool.org/ Jane's Substack: https://substack.com/@schoolofthought Jane's Edutopia Profile: https://www.edutopia.org/profile/jane-shore/ Jane's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jane-r-shore/
August 14 · 49 min· Video
Why 'Why Am I Learning This?' Is the Most Important Question in Education | Edson Barton
In this episode of the Getting Smart Podcast, host Mason Pashia sits down with Edson Barton, CEO and co-founder of YouScience, to explore what it truly means to build a credentialing system that delivers value to learners, not just paperwork. Drawing on Utah's landmark House Bill 260, which mandates stackable credentials for all graduates and positions YouScience as the infrastructure powering that vision, Edson and Mason unpack what an end-to-end career readiness ecosystem looks like when it is grounded in science, driven by aptitude, and designed to answer every student's most fundamental question: why am I learning this? Edson shares his own winding, non-linear education story as a lens into why the current system fails so many passionate learners, and how aptitude-based guidance, layered with stackable industry certifications, can illuminate a meaningful path from middle school discovery all the way to a first career credential. The conversation covers the grain size of credentials, the challenge of interoperability and learner wallets, how to bring skeptical parents on board, and why the skills recognition movement, accelerated by AI, may finally have the technology to match its ambition. For education leaders looking to move from compliance to coherence, this episode is a compelling and practical case for reimagining what student readiness can mean.
August 12 · 49 min· Video
Catching Up: Job Cliff, Enrollment Drop, and the Hidden Crisis No One Is Talking About?
In this episode of Catching Up, Nate McClennen and Mason Pashia tackle three of the most urgent tensions in modern education. They explore a landmark Penn study revealing that while AI can streamline lesson planning, it may inadvertently erode student intrinsic motivation and engagement. The hosts also dive into the "truancy triangle"—a framework for understanding chronic absenteeism that balances policy and wraparound support with the often-overlooked necessity of designing learning experiences that students genuinely find relevant and worth attending. The conversation extends to the broader future of work, contrasting the fears of an "AI job apocalypse" with the reality of an impending demographic job cliff in sectors like healthcare, skilled trades, and education. Balancing these heavy topics, the episode highlights the power of real-world learning, featuring New York City's Summer Youth Employment Program—which leverages World Cup excitement to connect students to paid, hands-on projects—and a "good guy" neighborhood microgrant initiative designed to strengthen community ties. Join Nate and Mason for an honest, layered conversation on how school leaders can cut through the noise to design schools that foster belonging and meaningful outcomes.
August 5 · 31 min· Video
How Can Districts Turn Jobs Into Degrees to Build Stronger Teacher Pipelines? | Joe Ross
Reach University is rethinking higher education with a simple but powerful idea: turn jobs into degrees. In this conversation, Joe Ross shares how apprenticeship degrees can help districts grow their own teachers by investing in the talent already in their buildings. From paraeducators to support staff, this model creates affordable pathways into the profession while strengthening local workforce pipelines. The episode explores teacher prep, higher education, lifelong learning, and new pathways that expand opportunity without adding debt. Outline (00:00) Introduction: Joe Ross & Reach University (06:26) I Love That You Guys Look at Learning Environments (07:37) How the Apprenticeship Degree Model Works (17:24) Expanding Beyond K-12: Healthcare & Workforce Equity (26:43) Next Steps: How to Get Started with Reach University Links Read the full blog here LinkedIn Reach University
July 29 · 38 min· Video
Tell Story: Tyson Yunkaporta on Deep Time, Creolization, and Education
In this episode of the Getting Smart Podcast, Mason Pashia and Jason Cummins sit down with Tyson Yunkaporta for a thought-provoking conversation on Indigenous knowledge, relational learning, and the role of schools as spaces for dialogue, contradiction, and meaning-making. Together, they explore how language shapes worldview, why Indigenous leadership brings vital governance protocols to education, and how schools can move beyond reinforcing boundaries to becoming places where relationships, complexity, and shared understanding can grow. Outline (00:00) Introductions & Indigenous Identity (06:54) Language, Knowledge & Relational Thinking (11:24) Creolization & Indigenous Agency (18:59) Schools as Sites of Conflict & Culture (24:41) Good Protocols & Indigenous Leadership (31:42) Why Do This Work & Deep Time Links Read the full blog American Indian and Indigenous Studies Program Declaration of Peace for Indigenous Australians and Nature: A Legal Pluralist Approach to First Laws and Earth Laws LinkedIn Deakin Research

Showing 1–20 of 31 episodes