For The Love With Jen Hatmaker Podcast

Jen Hatmaker

New York Times bestselling author Jen Hatmaker has arrived in the middle years, and she couldn't be happier about it.Jen has navigated the ins and outs of life, from career to parenting, marriage (and divorce), spiritual evolution, and the joys of being a hardcore Gen Xer.With each weekly episode, Jen serves as our "everywoman" guide to all the seasons, past, present, and future, as she walks excitedly and tenaciously into the second half of life.Some weeks, Jen brings her perspective straight to you, just her and the mic, talking through the things we're all navigating. Other weeks, she pulls up a chair for some of the most interesting and accomplished guests around, plus a few of her favorite friends, bringing insight, expertise, and a whole lot of heart to the most relevant topics of our time.While Jen has plenty of wisdom to share (and some pretty hilarious stories, too), she doesn't claim to know it all. From her honest solo reflections to her compelling conversations with guests, she's here to reassure you that you're not alone in this game of life.It's "For the Love" of all that is good, justified, exasperating, exhilarating, real, fun, and so much more.

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21 episodes
Updated Yesterday

Episodes21

Newest first

Yesterday · 48 min
Say the Quiet Thing Out Loud: Jen Hatmaker solo episode
Description: Jen is coming to you from the last two days of Me Camp in Canada, eyeballs on the lake, four weeks into having the volume turned down on every channel. And when the static quiets, the truer things rise up. In this me-to-you episode, Jen kicks off August's theme of honesty with the idea at the spine of the whole month: there is the thing we say, and then there is a truer sentence sitting an inch underneath it. And usually one inch under that. Jen shares what her own silence cost in the last years of her marriage, names the difference between truth-telling and truth-throwing, and offers the gentlest possible place to begin: one true sentence, one page, just between you and you. Thought-provoking Quotes: “Staying quiet only masquerades as keeping the peace. We are genuinely just deferring the bill.” “It doesn't disappear just because we're not willing to look it in the eye. It just goes underground, but it charges interest.” “So here I am thinking I'm protecting this marriage, protecting the kids — and I was actually helping to sink the ship.” “My body was absolutely telling the truth. Maybe my mouth wasn't, but my body was.” “There is a difference between truth telling and truth throwing.” “Honest is not the same thing as "unfiltered." Honest and kind are not opposites.” “You are not too much, and your real self is not an inconvenience.” Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The AWAKE Collective, the monthly live gathering where this conversation started, included with a paid subscription to Jen’s Substack: jenhatmaker.substack.com Letters from the Middle, Jen’s Substack, where the honesty conversation continues all month: jenhatmaker.substack.com Tell us your story — head to jenhatmaker.com/podcast, look for the Send Voicemail button, and tell Jen the quiet thing you finally said out loud (or the one you’re working up to). Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Substack - https://jenhatmaker.substack.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.
July 29 · 1 hr 20 min
The Sacred Yes: Jen Hatmaker & Tyler Merritt on Choosing Your Body
Description: Some yeses cost us something. Some of them save us. Jen sits down with her partner, actor, author, and speaker Tyler Merritt, hours after his chemotherapy infusion. Tyler is midway through treatment for colorectal cancer, his second diagnosis in six years, and the two get honest about making thoughtful decisions when your body is calling every shot. They talk about the yes Tyler gave in the middle of radiation: booking a brand-new theater tour that opens seventeen days after his last chemo, a yes he says he "arguably shouldn't have" given, made so he'd have something beautiful to walk toward. Jen turns the lens on her own year and the yes she almost took back: getting on the plane to Me Camp after a hysterectomy, a brutal spring, and a boyfriend in chemo two thousand miles away. Tyler also flips the mic and asks Jen whether she regrets writing AWAKE. Her answer is about closure, discretion, and the two longest weeks of her life waiting to hear what her daughter thought of the book. Plus: how to tell your intuition from everybody else's fear, Jen's top three Me Camp TV experiences, one Enneagram argument, and the one yes Tyler is still too scared to say out loud. Thought-provoking Quotes: "There is something absolutely sacred in choosing your body in a time period where it may not be convenient." — Tyler "Rest is the thing that I choose. Rest is my sacred yes." — Tyler "It's not a yes that feels obligated. It's not coerced. It isn't even careless. It's thoughtful. It is baked in with wisdom." — Jen "In the midst of the fire, I made the decision to do something that would be difficult if I was just healthy." — Tyler "When someone else puts their caution on your yes, that can be a real governor on forward progress." — Jen "The sacred yes I'm afraid to say out loud is that I'm going to be okay." — Tyler Resources Mentioned in This Episode: AWAKE by Jen Hatmaker I Take My Coffee Black by Tyler Merritt Tyler's new theater tour, opening August 28 Me Camp, the Enneagram, and Jeremy Pope John Candy: I Like Me, Widows Bay, The Bear, The Five-Star Weekend Guest's Links: Website - thetylermerrittproject.com Instagram - @thetylermerrittproject Twitter - @TTMProject Facebook - The Tyler Merritt Project Youtube - The Tyler Merritt Project Connect with Jen! Jen's Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen's Twitter -
July 22 · 1 hr 12 min
The Sacred Yes: What My Mom Taught Me About Courage, Curiosity, and Starting Again
In our Sacred Yes series, we've explored what it means to choose courage, curiosity, and joy in the second half of life. Who better to join than the woman who quietly taught Jen those lessons from the beginning? In this deeply personal episode, Jen calls home from MeCamp to check in with her mom, Jana. Jana was originally supposed to be lakeside in Ontario with Jen this week—until Jen's dad, Larry, discovered that Jana's passport had expired back in April. Instead of catching up by the water, mother and daughter connected remotely. Thankfully, they hit record so we could all benefit from Jana's wisdom. This warm, funny, generation-spanning conversation explores the stories, fears, and freedoms we inherit. Jana reflects on growing up in the '50s and '60s, the cultural scripts that told young women they couldn't quite "make it" on their own, and how her own mother—who died when Jana was just 33—refused to let her carry fear. Jen and Jana trace how that fearlessness rolled down through the family, for better and occasionally for worse. Jana shares insights from 55 years of marriage and raising four resilient children in a home where faith was central and failure was never a dealbreaker. She also discusses her decades as an educator and the joy of discovering new passions after retirement—including the "yeses" she's given herself lately, from traveling with her best friend to opening her own bank account (so she never has to explain a $78 lunch again!). Whether you're navigating an empty nest, caring for aging parents, rebuilding after loss, or wondering what this next chapter holds, this conversation offers the gentle mentoring so many of us wish we could still receive from our own mothers. Because the greatest gift a parent can give isn't certainty—it's the confidence to believe that no matter what happens, you can always get back up and begin again. Thought-Provoking Quotes: "Everybody's been on the ground. Everybody screws up… But while you live with the consequences, you can still just get back up. That doesn't need to define you." — Jana King "We built a solid foundation on faith, but mostly we built it on just loving our kids and giving them a safe harbor." — Jana King "Even if you weren't given that privilege of unconditional love, that doesn't need to define you. You can still step out and be brave." — Jana King Resources Mentioned: Moonshine Grill (Austin, TX) & Kinfolk Cocktail Lounge Community First! Village (Jana's post-retirement library project) Good Hang with Amy Poehler Podcast Awake Season Quiz Connect with Jen! Website - Instagram - Twitter - Facebook - YouTube The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.
July 20 · 24 min
Introducing: Money Moves with Jill Schlesinger
There’s a lot of dopey financial advice out there. Jill Schlesinger is here to call it out, answer your questions, break down the financial news that actually matters, and help you manage your money without losing your mind. No jargon. No judgment. Just clear, actionable financial guidance about saving, investing, buying a home, managing your career, and deciding how to spend your hard-earned dollars. When it’s time to panic, Jill will tell you. When everyone else is panicking and you shouldn’t be, Jill will tell you that too. Your money. Your move. Let’s go.
July 18 · 40 min
[ENCORE] The Sacred Yes to What's Next: Leanne Morgan on Midlife Reinvention, Second Acts, and Dreams That Are Worth Waiting For
Description: What if your biggest breakthrough hasn't happened yet? In this joyful and deeply encouraging conversation, Jen sits down with comedian, author, actress, and beloved storyteller Leanne Morgan to talk about dreams, disappointment, perseverance, and the surprising possibilities waiting for us in midlife. As part of our Sacred Yes: Reclaiming Joy in Midlife series, we're bringing back one of our most-loved episodes because Leanne's story embodies everything this season is about: saying yes to possibility, trusting your own timeline, and refusing to believe that life's best chapters belong exclusively to youth. Before sold-out tours, bestselling books, Netflix specials, and national recognition, Leanne spent decades raising children, caring for family, performing in comedy clubs, and quietly holding onto a dream that seemed increasingly unlikely. Then, in her fifties, everything changed. With her trademark humor and warmth, Leanne shares what it was like to keep showing up long after many people would have given up. She reflects on motherhood, caregiving, marriage, becoming a grandmother, and the surprising freedom that comes with getting older. Most of all, she reminds us that there is no expiration date on becoming who we're meant to be. Over this delightful hour, Leanne will regale you with charming hard-won life lessons including: ● Why success arriving later can be a gift● The power of perseverance through disappointment● The balancing act of holding dreams, caregiving, and family life all with care● How humor helps us survive hard seasons● Why comparison is a thief of joy● The freedom that comes with embracing your own timeline● What it means to trust that what's meant for you won't miss you If you've ever wondered whether you've missed your chance, whether it's too late to pivot, or whether your most joyful years are already behind you, Leanne has a message for you: You are not behind. You are not too late. Your story is still unfolding. Thought-provoking Quotes: ★ "I always just knew it was going to happen... I knew there were people out there going through the same thing I'm going through. I just didn't know how to reach them." — Leanne Morgan ★ "I really try to be present and enjoy it, because what a gift after all these years. It's just like icing on the cake, really." — Leanne Morgan ★ "I hope they take away: use humor to get you through hard times. I think it's the best thing that could ever happen to anybody, to be able to laugh through the bad times." — Leanne Morgan ★ "I've got to be me. I've got to do what I've got to do. If y'all love me or if you don't, it's okay." — Leanne Morgan Resources Mentioned in This Episode: ➢ What in the World?!: A Southern Woman's Guide to Laughing at Life's Unexpected Curveballs by Leanne Morgan - https://www.leannemorgan.com/book➢ I'm Every Woman (Netflix Special) - https://www.netflix.com/title/81688708➢ You're Cordially Invited (Amazon MGM Studios) - https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/detail/B0D9WF53QX➢
July 15 · 1 hr 5 min
Dinner With Strangers: Jess Janz On The Friends We Haven't Met Yet
Dinner With Strangers: Jess Janz On The Friends We Haven't Met Yet We're more connected than ever—and lonelier than we'd like to admit. What if the answer isn't finding the right people, but simply pulling up another chair? This week, Jen sits down with writer, poet, and community-builder Jess Janz to talk about her new book, The Table Where We Meet, and the social experiment that grew into the phenomenon known as Dinner With Strangers. What began as a gathering around a table with a few curious questions has now welcomed more than a thousand people into conversations that move past small talk and into the territory we all secretly long for: belonging. Jen and Jess explore why so many of us feel disconnected, what makes a question powerful enough to crack a person open, and how vulnerability creates the conditions for genuine connection. Whether you're craving deeper friendships, navigating loneliness, or wondering how to build a bigger table in your own life, this conversation is a hopeful reminder that meaningful connection is still possible—and closer than you think. In this episode, you'll hear: The hidden costs of loneliness and our growing hunger for belonging Why "What's your favorite movie?" might be the wrong icebreaker—and what to ask instead What happens when one person chooses vulnerability first Why community isn't something we stumble into—it's something we create Quotes: "There's alchemy in holding a heavy dish for the person beside you, reaching across, filling water glasses. All of that is so disarming. It shouldn't be a roadblock to connection—it should be the bridge." – Jess Janz "Loneliness and helplessness is something that is weaponized in our lives right now, and so it's radical to be in community together." – Jess Janz Resources Mentioned: The Table Where We Meet by Jess Janz With Strangers Jen's dinner party for her daughter Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker Dan Mangan Buy Jess' book Guest's Links: Website | Instagram | Facebook | TikTok | Substack Connect with Jen! Website | Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.
July 8 · 34 min
When Life Outpaces You, Rest Isn't Optional
Every summer, Jen heads off on her annual Me Camp, a month dedicated to stepping away from the noise to reconnect with herself. But this year, Me Camp isn't a tradition or a luxury. It's an act of survival. In the wake of major surgery, while carrying the weight of parenting adult children, navigating family crises, supporting loved ones through illness, and trying to hold together a life once built for two people, Jen found herself physically, emotionally, and mentally depleted. She almost didn't go. In this deeply personal solo episode, Jen shares what finally convinced her to leave anyway, why asking for help has become one of the hardest and holiest lessons of this season, and what she's learning about the difference between escaping your life and stepping away long enough to return to it whole. If you're the dependable one, the fixer, the person everyone calls in a crisis, this conversation is a gentle but urgent invitation. Loosen your grip. Let people show up for you. Remember that rest isn't a reward for finishing the work. Sometimes it's the very thing that makes it possible to keep going. In this episode, Jen explores: What happens when life outpaces your capacity Why asking for help feels so uncomfortable, especially for capable people The hidden cost of believing you're indispensable How codependency can disguise itself as responsibility Why retreat can be an act of courage, not avoidance The simple invitation to "choose the lake chair anyway" Whether you're recovering from something visible or carrying burdens no one else can see, this episode offers permission to stop white-knuckling your way through life, receive the care that's available to you, and trust that stepping away can be the very thing that helps you step back in with renewed strength. Thought-Provoking Quotes: "I have managed and been the troubleshooter, the point person, the heavy lifter, the anchor, the decider of so much in the last few months by myself. And some of it is absolutely consequential. Huge, huge things. And all of it just outpaced me." – Jen Hatmaker "I think those of us who struggle to ask for help have some brutal combination of pride (the bad kind) and a false sense of self-sufficiency, and this is somehow wrapped up in how people think of us. Do they think of me as needy? Do they think of me as irresponsible?" – Jen Hatmaker "I'm gonna treat rest like it's sacred, as opposed to the go, go, go adventure energy I normally have." – Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Sacred Yes: Reclaiming Joy in Midlife Starts Here - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/sacred-yes-reclaiming-joy-in-midlife-starts-here/ Jen's first cookbook, Feed These People: Slam-Dunk Recipes for Your Crew - https://amzn.to/3R1P0ps Jen's Substack - https://jenhatmaker.substack.com/ The Awake Collective - https://jenhatmaker.substack.com/p/the-awake-collective Connect with Jen! Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ | Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker | Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ | Facebook -
July 3 · 56 min
[ENCORE] The Sacred Yes to Rest: Katherine May on Retreat, Beauty, and the Healing We Can’t Rush
Description: Three years ago, Katherine May gave us a language for something many of us experience but rarely know how to name: wintering. Those seasons of life when everything slows down. When grief arrives. When burnout catches up with us. When illness, loss, caregiving, parenting challenges, or unexpected change force us to stop and reconsider how we're living. As part of our Sacred Yes: Reclaiming Joy in Midlife series, we're revisiting this unforgettable conversation because Katherine's wisdom feels even more relevant today than it did when it first aired. Together, Jen and Katherine explore what it means to stop treating ourselves like machines and start honoring our humanity. They discuss the value of retreat, the necessity of rest, and why healing cannot be rushed. Katherine challenges the cultural pressure to push through difficult seasons and instead invites us to trust that growth is still happening beneath the surface—even when life appears dormant. Nestled in this conversation is a gentle reminder that joy isn't always found by adding more. Sometimes it emerges when we create space. Space for solitude. Space for beauty. Space to notice what's growing quietly within us. If you've been feeling weary, stretched thin, or ready to step off the hamster wheel for a moment, this episode offers a different path forward—one marked by grace, patience, and the courage to rest before collapse forces it upon us. In this very gentle and generous conversation, you’ll hear: Why every life includes seasons of "wintering" The difference between retreat and isolation How beauty sustains us during difficult seasons Why sadness isn't something to fix Practical ways to create restorative space in everyday life What it means to trust the season you're in Sometimes the most sacred yes isn't a leap forward. It's permission to pause. Thought-provoking Quotes: "You can trust this space, and you can trust your sadness. It's telling you something. You don't have to run away from it. You can be sad. You can handle being sad. What you can't handle is pretending not to be sad and being sad anyway." — Katherine May "There is a process of healing, and it's also a process of change. Those things will take a certain amount of time whatever you do. You are not doing anything wrong if you're still suffering a week later, a month later, or six months later." — Katherine May "If you can lean into that space and accept it rather than fight it, you will spare yourself a lot of pain." — Katherine May "People who've gone through major winters always seem to look back and say, 'I wouldn't have not gone through it if it meant I couldn't be who I am now.'" — Katherine May "Look for beauty in that space. Reacquaint yourself with your gut feeling that leads you toward what you find beautiful and awe-inspiring." — Katherine May Resources Mentioned in This Episode: [Wintering: The Power of Rest and Retreat in Difficult Times](https://katherine-may.co.uk/books/wintering/?utm_source=chatgpt.com) by Katherine May - https://katherine-may.co.uk/books/wintering/ [Enchantment: Awakening Wonder in an Anxious Age](https://katherine-may.co.uk/books/enchantment/?utm_source=chatgpt.com) by Katherine May - https://katherine-may.co.uk/books/enchantment/ [The Sea, The Sea by Iris Murdoch](
July 1 · 50 min
Sacred Yes: Reclaiming Joy in Midlife | Jen Hatmaker Solo Episode
Description: In this deeply personal solo episode, Jen takes us to the place where this journey began: Me Camp. What started as a spontaneous trip to coastal Maine during one of the hardest seasons of her life became an annual practice of restoration, adventure, healing, and joy. Six summers later, as she arrives in a tiny lakeside town in Ontario for another month of Me Camp, she's reflecting on the small word that changed everything: yes. This month, we'll be exploring what it means to reclaim joy, embrace rest, honor our desires, and create lives that are not just productive—but deeply satisfying. It's time to discover your own Sacred Yes. Thought-provoking Quotes: “MeCamp changed my life. I’m not being demonstrative or exaggerating. It's where the ‘Sacred Yes’ got its first footing.” – Jen Hatmaker “I keep my heart open to whatever's possible. Who could I meet? What could I experience? Where could I go? What can I see? And when people are like, hey, do you wanna…? The answer's yes. And so that sacred yes got sort of imprinted on my heart.” – Jen Hatmaker “I feel the weight of irresponsible yeses that should have been no's.” – Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: MeCamp 2026 Announcement - Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/4xzBo5n Jen’s Substack - https://jenhatmaker.substack.com/ Join the Awake Collective - https://jenhatmaker.substack.com/p/the-awake-collective Jen Hatmaker Book Club - https://shop.jenhatmaker.com/collections/book-club Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.
June 26 · 39 min
[ENCORE] Every Bit of You Is Cause for Pride and Celebration | Revisiting Our Most Downloaded Episode with Sydney Hatmaker
Description: As part of our Freedom & Flourishing series this Pride Month, we're revisiting the most downloaded episode in the history of For the Love—a conversation that has continued to ripple through families, friendships, and faith communities for years after it first aired. Six years ago, Jen sat down with her daughter Sydney to hand her the microphone and invite her to tell her own story in her own words. What followed was a brave, tender, and deeply honest conversation about growing up gay in the church, loving Jesus while feeling afraid and alone, and finding the courage to embrace the fullness of who you are. Sydney shares what it was like to navigate faith and identity as a young person, the messages she received from churches and Christian leaders, and the real impact those messages have on LGBTQIA+ kids sitting quietly in pews every Sunday. Together, Jen and Sydney discuss what true allyship requires, why affirmation matters, and how we can create homes, communities, and faith spaces where people are cherished exactly as they are. In this episode: Sydney shares her journey of growing up gay within a Christian family and faith community A candid conversation about faith, identity, and belonging What churches and Christian leaders need to understand about LGBTQIA+ youth Why allyship requires more than acceptance—it requires action A call to advocate for and protect transgender people, who often face the greatest vulnerability How creating safe, welcoming spaces helps all people flourish Content Note: This episode includes discussion of the mental health challenges, isolation, and discrimination often experienced by LGBTQIA+ youth. Thought-provoking Quotes: "I was just scared, and alone. And I wanted to have it all. I wanted to have my family, and God, and my future. And I didn't think I'd be able to have it all." — Sydney Hatmaker "It doesn't matter how loving you are, or what emphasis on Scripture you come with. That's not enough if you're not fully accepting them as children of God." — Sydney Hatmaker "The biggest act of allyship you can make is using your voice in places where marginalized people feel less safe." — Sydney Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: This Is How It Always Is by Laurie Frankel — https://www.lauriefrankel.net/this-is-how-it-always-is.html Human Rights Campaign LGBTQ+ Youth Research — https://www.thehrcfoundation.org/reports/collections/youth-report-collection HRC & University of Connecticut LGBTQ+ Youth Study — https://reports.hrc.org/2023-lgbtq-youth-report Connect with Jen! Website: https://jenhatmaker.com/ Instagram: https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Twitter: https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Facebook: https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.
June 24 · 1 hr 16 min
He Built the Machine, Then He Survived It: Tim Schraeder Rodriguez on 15 Years Behind the Scenes of Evangelical Christianity
Description: For 15 years, Tim Schraeder Rodriguez quietly shaped the digital face of some of the biggest names in evangelical Christianity — Willow Creek, Hillsong, Elevation — helping mega-churches reach millions with a message of radical welcome. The painful irony? He was living proof of their unspoken rules. Useful in the shadows. Unacceptable in the light. In this conversation, Tim joins Jen and Amy to talk about his new memoir, Conversion Therapy Dropout, and the full arc of his story: growing up adopted with a sense of "anxious apartness," signing the purity pledge as a kid who already knew he was gay, eight years in the loosely-held and deeply damaging world of conversion therapy, and eventually a breaking point that brought him to his knees — and then, slowly, to himself. Today, the conversation swirls around what conversion therapy actually looks like from the inside (football coaches, Mary Kay consultants, and all), the complicated grief of leaving a community that was also your career and your family, how the Pulse Orlando shooting became Tim's personal line in the sand, and what it took to find his way back to faith — this time, in church basements with other sober queer people finding a God of their own understanding. They also get into the current state of conversion therapy in America, why it's more active and accessible than most people realize, and what the rest of us — regular people who just live on their street and go to their jobs — can actually do about it. This one is hard and beautiful and hopeful. Don't miss it. Thought-provoking Quotes: ★ "I was living proof of their unspoken rules. I was useful in the shadows, but unacceptable in the light." – Tim Schraeder Rodriguez★ "It really kind of disintegrates you in body, mind and spirit because you're acting and being something and someone that you're not." – Tim Schraeder Rodriguez★ "Freedom wasn't finally becoming who they said I was supposed to be, but finally embracing who I believe God created me to be." – Tim Schraeder Rodriguez★ "More transformation was happening in church basements than was ever happening upstairs." – Tim Schraeder Rodriguez★ "I finally feel like I'm living from a place of honesty and truth. I sense and feel God's presence with me today now more as an openly gay man than I ever did in the years I was in conversion therapy." – Tim Schraeder Rodriguez Resources Mentioned in This Episode: ➢ Dissenting Harmony - Amy’s Rage Choir - https://dissentingharmony.betterworld.org/➢ Conversion Therapy Dropout: A Queer Story of Faith and Belonging by Timothy Schraeder Rodriguez - https://amzn.to/48smCCv➢ Conversion Therapy Dropout audiobook - https://amzn.to/3OZULmD➢ Exodus International - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_International➢ The Trevor Project — thetrevorproject.org➢ ...
June 17 · 1 hr 14 min
Juneteenth, Justice & the Next America: Lisa Sharon Harper | For The Love
Description: As we celebrate Juneteenth, Jen sits down with writer, activist, theologian, and longtime friend Lisa Sharon Harper for a conversation that’s equal parts history lesson, spiritual challenge, and call to action. Together, they explore the often-overlooked story of Juneteenth—not just the delayed news of emancipation in Texas, but the deeper history of freedom promised, denied, and fought for across generations. Fresh from a powerful march across Selma’s Edmund Pettus Bridge, Lisa reflects on what it means to stand in the footsteps of civil rights heroes while confronting the realities of the present moment. Drawing from her own family’s legacy of resistance, she shares why her hope no longer rests in institutions, laws, or political systems, but in ordinary people willing to bend the arc of history toward justice. The conversation moves from the unfinished work of voting rights to the spiritual courage required for this cultural moment. As Lisa puts it, perhaps our task is not simply to recover what has been lost, but to become “the architects of the next America.” Whether you’re marking Juneteenth, wrestling with questions about democracy and belonging, or searching for hope in uncertain times, this conversation is a timely reminder that freedom has always depended on people willing to imagine—and build—something better. Thought-provoking Quotes: ★ “The Supreme Court has effectively placed us back into the time of Plessy vs Ferguson, which said separate and equal is okay, the time of even Dred Scott, which says a black man has no rights that a white man need abide by. That’s what they’re gunning for.” ★ In the past, my hope was in the law. In the past, my hope was in the dream of America. My hope was in the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, the Bill of Rights. My hope was in the church. But what I’m learning is that the arc of the moral universe has bent toward justice because people have bent it.” ★ “What can they do to us? What can they do? They can put us in jail. God is there. They can deport us. God will be there. They can kill us. And God will be there. So what can they do? They can't do anything to us. Not really.” Resources Mentioned in This Episode: ➢ (The Gospel of Shalom) Unequally Saved: The Church’s Role in Racism with Lisa Sharon Harper - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-08/unequally-saved-the-churchs-role-in-racism-with-lisa-sharon-harper/ ➢ Fortune: How Race Broke My Family and the World--and How to Repair It All by Lisa Sharon Harper - https://amzn.to/43LTXW1 ➢ “All Roads Lead To The South” Rally - https://blackpowerwarroom.com/dayofaction/ ➢ A Resistance History of the United States by Tad Stoermer - https://amzn.to/4dK3RNS ➢ Amazing Grace | William Wilberforce film - https ...
June 12 · 47 min
[ENCORE] Beyond the Hug: How Sara Cunningham Built a Movement of Radical Welcome
Description:It's Pride Month, and we couldn't think of a better time to bring back one of our most beloved episodes. Sara Cunningham — founder of Free Mom Hugs — first joined Jen back in 2018, when she was a Christian mom from Oklahoma City who had just started showing up at Pride parades with a handmade sign and a button. A lot has happened since then. What began as one mom extending her arms to strangers has grown into a global movement. Free Mom Hugs now trains advocates, lobbies legislatures, and shows up year after year for LGBTQIA+ people whose own families walked away. Sara hasn't just built an organization — she's built a lifeline. In this conversation, Sara and Jen revisit the journey that started it all: how Sara moved from the church to the Pride parade without losing her faith, what it meant for her son Parker to come out into a family still finding its footing, and how the stories of people who had lost everything — their families, their churches, their sense of belonging — fell into her arms and changed the course of her life. They also talk about what it takes to turn personal pain into structural change, and why showing up — physically, politically, and relationally — for the LGBTQIA+ community matters more than ever right now. This one is worth every minute. Enjoy this encore conversation with our beloved friend, Sara Cunningham! Thought-provoking Quotes: “No one has searched for God more than the Gay Christian.” – Sara Cunningham “The first drag show that I ever went to, when I crossed the threshold, I really thought lightning might strike. But, I realized these are beautiful people raising money for homeless LGBTQ youth. And I was so moved by that. I had it totally wrong. I believed a lie that kept me from some of the most beautiful experiences I’ve had in my life.” – Sara Cunningham “I remember there was a time, at the beginning of that journey, I call from the church to the pride parade. It was like reality was setting in. The bubble that I was in, the evangelical conservative mainstream bubble that I was in where everyone looked like me and talked like me, had just shattered. And I wanted to take a banner and put it outside of my house on the front door, like, welcome to the real world. And suddenly it's like my eyes are truly open.” - Sara Cunningham Resources Mentioned in This Episode: LGBTQIA MeCourse - https://shop.jenhatmaker.com/products/parenting-lgbtqia-teens-tweens Mama Bears - https://www.realmamabears.org/ FTL Episode ft. Sydney Hatmaker - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/spring-back-series-living-proudly-with-sydney-hatmaker/id1258388821?i=1000523761007 Kai Shappley’s Website - https://kaishappley.com/ Free Mom Hugs Revolution Conference - https://freemomhugs.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=Page.ViewPage&pageId=571 Kimberly Shappley’s Website - ...
June 10 · 1 hr 12 min
Testify to Love: Avalon's Untold Story | For the Love
Description:If you grew up on Christian music in the '90s, there's a good chance Testify to Love wasn't just a hit song—it was the soundtrack to a season of your life. Three decades after Avalon first released the iconic anthem, Jen sits down with original Avalon member Michael Passons, longtime Avalon vocalist Melissa Greene, and country music star Ty Herndon to talk about the remarkable re-release of a song that has found new meaning for a new generation. But this isn't simply a conversation about music. It's the untold story behind one of CCM's most beloved songs. Michael shares the painful reality of losing his place in Avalon after coming out as gay. Melissa reflects on the faith journey that transformed her understanding of inclusion and belonging. Ty opens up about his own path through addiction, recovery, faith, and finally living fully and truthfully as himself. Together, they revisit the song that connected millions of listeners and explore why its message of love, acceptance, and human dignity feels more relevant now than ever. Filled with laughter, tears, hard-earned wisdom, and more than a few moments that will leave you reaching for the tissues, this conversation is a beautiful testament to friendship, healing, and the courage it takes to live loud. Whether Testify to Love has been on your playlist for thirty years or you're hearing its story for the first time, this episode is a powerful reminder that love's truest testimony is not who it excludes—but who it embraces. Thought-provoking Quotes: “I lost my community, my family, my career, all within a couple of seconds. That’s a lot to process.” - Michael Passons "The people I loved and the fullness of their humanity butted up against my theological positions. I had to ask myself: Do I keep creating fences and becoming more exclusive? Or could it be that my views of God, humanity, and the world need to change?" – Melissa Greene "What I've noticed in the lives of people who have allowed themselves to evolve and change their mind is that that process pulls us toward an expansiveness that is just magical." - Jen Hatmaker “You don't live in the church, the church lives in you. You have an opportunity right now to start your own church and decide who sits at your table. No one can kick you out of your own church.” - Ty Herndon Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Avalon - https://www.avalonthegroup.com/ Carman - https://carman.org/ Stephen Curtis Chapman - https://store.stevencurtischapman.com/ Kirk Franklin - https://kirkfranklin.com/ Michael’s Instagram Reel - https://www.instagram.com/reels/DY6_JF6BDyO/ Dottie Rambo - https://www.dottierambo.net/ Testify to Love - https://music.apple.com/us/song/testify-to-love-feat-melissa-greene/1893435396 Testify to Love video ...
June 5 · 56 min
May 2026: James McBride’s Deacon King Kong
We were supposed to talk about Deacon King Kong. We did not. When Jen sat down with Pulitzer Prize-winning novelist James McBride to discuss the Jen Hatmaker Book Club's May selection, the conversation took a hard left turn into something far richer — a wide-ranging tour through one of the most remarkable lives in American letters. James opens up about a scrappy and troubled adolescence in Brooklyn, getting straightened out in the heat of the Louisville, Kentucky summers, and the music that quite literally saved him. He reminisces about touring Europe as a young musician and playing saxophone alongside Stevie Ray Vaughan at Antone's in Austin, traveling with Michael Jackson on the Victory Tour as a young journalist, surviving the Boston Globe's newsroom in the 1980s, writing songs for Anita Baker and Grover Washington, working with Quincy Jones, and getting dressed down by Harry Belafonte in a writers' room. Along the way, he reflects on race, art, faith, forgiveness, music, storytelling, old cars, and why the best writers are simply the people paying closest attention. He also shares what gives him hope about America right now — and it might surprise you. Of course, we touch on Deacon King Kong—its unforgettable characters, humor, and heart—but this conversation became something even bigger: a portrait of the life experiences that shaped the storyteller behind the book. Come for the book club discussion. Stay for one of the most fascinating conversations Jen has had in a long time. Oh, and Deacon King Kong is a masterpiece. You should absolutely read it. Thought-provoking Quotes: Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.jamesmcbride.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jamesmcbrideauthor/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/JamesMcBrideAuthor/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. ★ “I didn’t grow up wanting to be a writer. We were just concerned about eating.” – James McBride★ “Years and years of playing $50, $75, $100 gigs prepares you for a life of good struggle.” – James McBride★ “People are trying to do their best. Just because you don’t agree with them, it doesn’t mean they’re not trying to do their best.” – James McBride★ “We have work to do and I'm proud of those of us who are doing it. And for those of us who are not, maybe their children will come to it or maybe they won't. The struggle is a beautiful thing.” – James McBride➢ Miracle at St. Anna (Spike Lee movie) - https://www.jamesmcbride.com/miracle-at-st-anna/➢ The Good Lord Bird: A Novel by James McBride - https://amzn.to/4eJBPDc➢ The Heaven & Earth Grocery Store: A Novel by James McBride - https://amzn.to/4d74l0a➢ Deacon King Kong: A Novel by James McBride - https://amzn.to/4uLm4QP➢
June 3 · 1 hr 1 min
Big Baby and New Beginnings: Kevin James Thornton on Sin Clowns, Standups, and Second Acts
Description:He's back — and this time he brought a memoir. Comedian Kevin James Thornton returns to For the Love, and if you thought you knew Kevin from his hilarious auto-tuned TikToks and wired-headphone microphone bits, this conversation will lovingly surprise you. Kevin's debut memoir, Big Baby: On Endings, Beginnings, and an Interdimensional Cat, traces his journey from performing as a literal sin clown on a youth group mission trip in 1990s New York City, to grinding it out on the stand-up circuit in LA, to touring one-man shows across the US, Canada, and eventually the world — Helsinki, Stockholm, Paris — all the way to present-day Cincinnati, where he's navigating a major life upheaval with nothing but his 13-pound black cat Comet and an extraordinary amount of hard-won self-awareness. In this conversation, Kevin opens up about what it actually took to write a book — including the two-week-long Airbnb retreat where he mostly just slept and watched TV because his attention span had been completely obliterated — and what surprised him most about recording the audiobook (hint: he cried, more than once, and they left it in). He talks about the strange, freeing moment he realized he no longer needed to prove himself to anyone, and how that shift was the very thing that made his work finally land. And he reflects on the beautiful, sometimes maddening truth that life doesn't end so much as it just keeps beginning again. Thought-provoking Quotes: "Even when I was living in my car, I was still dreaming about the next creative project...I was like that when I was 20. And I'm like that today." – Kevin James Thornton "I didn't realize that I went out into the world constantly trying to prove myself, that I was someone without Jesus. I didn't know that's what I was doing. I can see it so clearly looking backward now." – Kevin James Thornton "We sort of hand over this personal power to other people. It takes a long time to recognize and unlearn that." – Kevin James Thornton Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Brick - https://getbrick.com Jen’s Substack - https://jenhatmaker.substack.com/ Sarah Bessey’s Substack - https://sarahbessey.substack.com/ Big Baby: On Endings, Beginnings, and an Interdimensional Cat by Kevin James Thornton - https://amzn.to/4mVYPAJ Laughing Toward The Light: Comedian James Thornton Finds Himself at 50 - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-55/laughing-toward-the-light-comedian-james-thornton-finds-himself-at-50/ Create with Kevin (watercolor videos) - https://www.instagram.com/reel/DX-UksfK1pG/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
May 30 · 49 min
Encore: Whales, Boats, and Vulnerability w/ Tyler Merritt
Recorded live from the Oregon coast on the final day of MeCamp, this special two-part conversation between Jen and her partner Tyler Merritt is the perfect blend of hilarity, heart, and honesty. In Part 1, Jen and Tyler share stories from their MeCamp adventures — including a whale-watching excursion that got a little too close for comfort, and a near-death boat ride they’ll never forget. They also reflect on the power of personal storytelling, how vulnerability has shown up in their lives and work, and why telling the truth (even when it’s awkward) can be both healing and hilarious. Discussing the impact of Tyler's viral video "Before You Call the Cops" to Jen's reflections on her upcoming book "Awake," this conversation reveals the transformative potential of embracing vulnerability. Tune in to discover how opening up about our most personal stories can not only heal us but also inspire others to see themselves in our narratives. Tyler talks about the most awkward moment he’s ever had because he opted to be vulnerable and honest instead of protecting his pride He and Jen discuss the hardest truths they’ve ever had to tell themselves And Tyler goes back into the annals to reveal his most embarrassing moment as a performer on stage Thought-provoking Quotes: “The spirit of MeCamp almost got us killed.”– Tyler Merritt “One of the hardest things that I had to deal with telling myself is that it's okay to forgive yourself and to move forward. You deserve things in life, although maybe you haven't been the best person at times.”– Tyler Merritt “I'm aware that it's not every day that most people see a six foot two black man with dreadlocks crying in real life. I have never regretted a single moment in my life of being transparent about how I feel emotionally with somebody. Vulnerability has never kicked back at me in a negative way.”– Tyler Merritt “I think vulnerability begets vulnerability. Because I was saying who I am and I was allowing myself to be open to the world, the world was willing to take that. What it did within the black community is it allowed a lot of other black people to begin making their own videos going, before you call the cops, I just want you to know this about me. So it opened up a door of vulnerability that really allowed that to kind of echo.”– Tyler Merritt Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Depoe Bay, Oregon – https://visittheoregoncoast.com/cities/depoe-bay/ Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/40MYuXs Jen shares the first line from Awake – https://www.instagram.com/reel/DMrDdj4sCaQ/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=ZzdzZGdvM3h5Mmd6 This Changes Everything: A Surprisingly Funny Story About Race, Cancer, Faith, and Other Things We Don’t Talk About by Tyler Merritt – https://amzn.to/4m135Oj Brené Brown – https://brenebrown.com/ Before You Call The Cops by The Tyler Merritt Project – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGu_xGBekpo I Take My Coffee Black: Reflections on Tupac, Musical Theater, Faith, and Being Black in America by Tyler Merritt – https://amzn.to/47by9Gf Luna S ...
May 29 · 3 min
Bonus: Introducing Family Lore
Every family has its legends, the stories told and retold until they become gospel. Family Lore is a new weekly podcast that revisits those tales with curiosity, digging into the history behind each one to uncover what's true, what's myth, and what it all means. Enjoy this preview, then catch full episodes wherever you listen: https://link.pscrb.fm/f0281/FLFD
May 27 · 56 min
When the Floor Shifts: Belle Burden on Truth As Foundation
Description:There are some books you read with your whole body. Strangers by Belle Burden is one of those books. Belle was married for twenty-one years. Three kids. A life that, from the outside, looked like everything you're supposed to want. Then on the seventh day of the pandemic lockdown, a stranger left her a voicemail — and by the next morning, the man she thought she knew was gone. Belle is a former Davis Polk attorney, a descendant of John Jay, and the granddaughter of legendary socialite Babe Paley. She was raised in a world where women simply did not speak publicly about their husbands' transgressions. So she broke the chain — first in a viral New York Times Modern Love essay, then in her New York Times bestselling memoir. And now she's here with Jen. This conversation is everything. The night it all fell apart — the dinner, the mopped floor, the voicemail, the packed bag by morning. The myths we hand women about divorce and who gets to carry the shame. The money piece that nobody wants to talk about but everybody needs to hear. And the strange, hard-won truth that the most devastating thing that ever happened to you might also be the thing that finally gives you back to yourself. Jen and Belle are in an accidental sisterhood — two women who wrote the book about the thing that broke them, because it turns out a million other women are walking around carrying the same broken thing in silence. This one is for every woman who has ever stood in a kitchen in her pajama pants and felt the floor shift beneath her feet. If you can't yet imagine what's waiting for you on the other side of the hardest thing, let Belle and Jen show you. Thought-provoking Quotes: Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.belleburden.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/belleburden/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. ★ “It's really connected me to humanity to hear people's very private stories, their very private feelings, and that they feel safe sharing them with me because I think I was so raw and open and honest about my own.”-- Belle Burden★ “Writing about pain is really something that we really don’t see enough of.” -- Belle Burden★ “It took me years to let go of the matronly woman in the pajama pants who he wasn’t attracted to anymore and to replace her image in my mind with something else.” -- Belle Burden★ “People really want to find the red flags because they want to know that this ending was predictable. I think that makes people feel safer because this is a scary story. It feels totally impossible and then also very possible. I think people really want those red flags.” -- Belle Burden★ “I never could have thought that that horrible thing could happen to me and I could end up in a place where I'm happier, where my life is more interesting, that I feel so much more myself and it's very hard to envision that when you're in it.”-- Belle Burden★ “I think when things kind of fall apart, you just are forced to become more relaxed because nothing is going as you intended it to go.” -- Belle Burden➢
May 20 · 50 min
Somewhere Between the Mountains and the Spreadsheets — You Are Not As Alone As You Think You Are: A Listener Voicemail Episode
Description:Some episodes we plan. This one you created. This week, Jen and Amy are stepping back and letting the people they do this whole thing for take center stage. It's Listener Voicemail Day — and honestly? It might be our favorite kind of episode. Because nothing reminds us why this community exists quite like hearing your actual voices. So we're bringing your calls to you — from all kinds of moments and all kinds of women. Jessica calls in to reflect on our Awake Collective episode and where she is at in her own healing process, and feeling the loneliness that can settle in when you're deep in the work. Jen and Amy reflect on so much of the wisdom of our incredible Awake Collective panel – Kate Bowler, Nedra Tawwab, Emily Nagoski, and Kobe Cambell, whose words echo here: healing isn't supposed to feel good — it's supposed to feel like disruption. Sara brings it home with a call about raising young girls. Between them, Jen and Amy are parenting nine young adults, so they have thoughts. Amanda found Awake on vacation and came home having discovered something she didn't know she was missing — an invisible community of women who just get it. Deborah calls in from Canada with a story that will stop you in your tracks. A devastating and beautiful parallel between her journey losing her husband to terminal brain cancer and Jen's own story — and the breathtaking grace of how, by God's grace, we do recover. Tania reflects on the Wilderness and Wonder series and a recent trip to the mountains that cracked something open in her — the awe, the connection, the reminder that this podcast is its own kind of sacred space. And Diavianne closes things out talking budgets and spreadsheets, which sounds ordinary until you realize it's actually about power — the freedom and confidence that come from truly owning your financial life. Jen and Amy respond to each one with the honesty and tenderness that only comes from doing this long enough to know: you are never as alone as you think you are. This is the connective tissue. This is why we show up every week. Have something you need to say out loud? Head to JenHatmaker.com/Podcast, find the Send Voicemail button, and leave us your story. We're listening. Thought-provoking Quotes: “There’s something comforting about not feeling alone in something. I borrow courage from other people who say ‘me too’.” – Jen Hatmaker “Some things only work for us for a season. It’s okay to change things up. There’s not one right way to do things.” – Amy Hardin Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Wake-Up Call: What Changes in Midlife—and Why You’re Not Imagining It - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/the-wake-up-call-what-changes-in-midlife-and-why-youre-not-imagining-it/ Why We Sleep: Unlocking the Power of Sleep and Dreams by Matthew Walker - https://amzn.to/4whxU6N The Emotional (and Sometimes Chaotic) Life of Teenagers with Dr. Lisa Damour - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-52-for-the-love-of-calming-the-chaos/the-emotional-and-sometimes-chaotic-life-of-teenagers-with-dr-lisa-damour/ Good Bones by Maggie Smith - https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/89897/good-bones ...