Flirting With Enchantment

Poetry in Prison & the Life You’re Longing For | Joshua Luke Smith

What if the life you’re longing for isn’t somewhere out there waiting for you, but hidden inside the life you already have? Poet, songwriter, author, and community builder Joshua Luke Smith joins me for a conversation about suffering, limitation, freedom, creativity, and learning to find God in the life that’s actually in front of us. Joshua shares what more than a decade of working with incarcerated men has taught him about belonging, prayer, and the strange freedom that can emerge inside limitation. We talk about writing Psalms in prison, his own journey through grief and addiction, and the idea behind his new book, This Is the Main Event: that we spend so much of our lives waiting for something else to finally begin, when God may already be present in the ordinary, painful, beautiful life we have now. We also explore why grief may be the doorway back into a fully lived life, why numbing our pain inevitably numbs our joy, and how meaningful lives require risk, responsibility, friendship, and burdens worth carrying. IN THIS CONVERSATION What writing Psalms with incarcerated men reveals about suffering, confession, and belonging Why the life you long for may be hidden in the life you already have Finding liberation through limitation instead of endlessly trying to escape it Why grief is often the doorway back into your actual life How anesthetizing sorrow can also anesthetize joy, passion, and wonder The difference between freedom as unlimited choice and freedom found through a worthy burden Why some of the most meaningful things in life, friendship, art, children, feasting, can also seem “unnecessary” How suffering can produce endurance, character, and ultimately hope ABOUT JOSHUA LUKE SMITH Joshua Luke Smith is a poet, songwriter, author, and community builder whose work explores faith, creativity, belonging, and what it means to live a fully human life. He is the founder of Orphan No More and The Psalmists, a charity working with incarcerated men through creative expression and spiritual formation. Through poetry workshops rooted in the Psalms, Joshua helps men find language for lament, repentance, hope, and life beyond suffering. His latest book, This Is the Main Event, explores the invitation to stop escaping our lives and discover the sacred hidden within them. RESOURCES This Is the Main Event — Joshua Luke Smith Joshua’s book about learning to inhabit the life you already have. Buy This Is the Main Event The Psalmists — Joshua Luke Smith Joshua’s work with incarcerated men using poetry, the Psalms, creative expression, and spiritual formation. Orphan No More — Joshua Luke Smith The wider creative community and organization founded by Joshua. CONNECT Text Me - Join the SMS list for occasional thoughts, recommendations, and new work. https://my.community.com/johnmarkmcmillan Or text +1 (704) 286-1171 Patreon - Bonus conversations, extended episodes, and more from Flirting with Enchantment. https://www.patreon.com/c/johnmarkmcmillan

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Is Cynicism Making You Miserable? | Paul Anleitener

Human beings are storytelling creatures. Whether we realize it or not, we all live by guiding stories and those stories shape thousands of small decisions that eventually shape our lives, our culture, and the world we’re making together. So what happens when our guiding stories become cynical, defined more by what we’re tearing down than what we’re building? And could cultural and spiritual renewal begin by telling better stories? John Mark sits down with cultural theologian Paul Anleitner to explore the stories underneath our modern crisis of meaning. They talk about what happens when we lose the religious and cultural narratives that once gave us a sense of purpose, why no one actually lives without a guiding story, and how disenchantment can emerge when life is flattened into questions of matter, politics, and power. Paul also explores the limits of deconstruction and argues that the way forward isn’t simply another revolution—it’s recovering a positive vision of what is good, beautiful, and worth building. KEY TOPICS How the stories we live by shape our individual lives, communities, and culture Why the modern meaning crisis may also be a crisis of story What we lose when we walk away from religious traditions and the narratives that formed us Why no one is truly without a guiding story—even when they claim to believe in nothing How reducing life to matter, politics, and power can contribute to disenchantment The difference between deconstruction, rebellion, and genuine reform Why cynicism can trap us in an endless cycle of defining ourselves by what we oppose How better stories might help us recover meaning, transcendence, and a vision of human flourishing ABOUT PAUL ANLEITNER Paul Anleitner is a cultural theologian whose work focuses on the role of culture and story in our quest for meaning. His interdisciplinary approach brings together theology, philosophy, science, and cultural analysis to help individuals and institutions navigate cultural shifts and perennial religious longings. Paul is also the author of Based on a True Story: Vibe Shifts, the End of Deconstruction, and the Reboot of Meaning, which explores many of the ideas at the center of this conversation. RESOURCES & LINKS Based on a True Story: Vibe Shifts, the End of Deconstruction, and the Reboot of Meaning — Paul’s book on story, deconstruction, meaning, and cultural renewal. https://churchsource.com/products/based-on-a-true-story-vibe-shifts-the-end-of-deconstruction-and-the-reboot-of-meaning Goodmakers — Paul’s work exploring cultural renewal, leadership, meaning, and the stories that shape us. https://www.goodmakers.co CONNECT Text Me - Join the SMS list for occasional thoughts, recommendations, and new work. https://my.community.com/johnmarkmcmillan Or text +1 (704) 286-1171 Patreon - Bonus conversations, extended episodes, and more from Flirting with Enchantment. https://www.patreon.com/c/johnmarkmcmillan

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Flirting with Enchantment | John Mark McMillan

Conversations about the search for meaning in modern life through the lens of Christian spirituality. Exploring the deeper longings beneath the surface of faith, art, culture, and the stories that shape the way we see the world. Hosted by artist and author John Mark McMillan. New episodes every other Tuesday starting September 1st, 2026. Have you ever stopped to wonder how we've built a world our great-great-grandparents would have mistaken for magic, and yet we find ourselves more anxious than ever, more isolated, and less satisfied? That question is at the heart of a brand new podcast. John Mark McMillan is asking whether we've started expecting science to answer questions it was never designed to answer. Science can teach us how the world works and help us live longer, but can it tell us why all this surviving was ever a good idea in the first place? He believes the deepest longings are spiritual ones, and wonders if our ancestors, despite knowing far less about how the world worked, may have understood things we've forgotten. As a Christian and as a human being living in the 2020s, John Mark wants to spend more time asking those spiritual questions. That's exactly what "Flirting with Enchantment" is built for. It's a podcast exploring big questions about meaning-making and the deeper desires of the human heart, through the lens of Christian spirituality. If the big questions keep you up at night, this is the show for you. Subscribe to "Flirting with Enchantment" wherever you listen to podcasts. New episodes drop every other Tuesday. CONNECT Text Me - Join the SMS list for occasional thoughts, recommendations, and new work. https://my.community.com/johnmarkmcmillan Or text +1 (704) 286-1171 Patreon - Bonus conversations, extended episodes, and more from Flirting with Enchantment. https://www.patreon.com/c/johnmarkmcmillan