Exercise Science

Hosts Martin Gibala, PhD & Stuart Phillips, PhD share exercise science expertise, separating hype from hard facts.

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#13
August 18 · 39 min
Orthometria and the Future of Wellness | Gary LeBlanc, EverMe
In a special episode that concludes the first season of Exercise Science we invited on Gary LeBlanc, the COO and president of our title sponsor, EverMe, to discuss the future of wellness in our first-ever live taping in downtown Toronto. Gary LeBlanc has been studying wellness and personal optimization for decades. As a leader at EverMe, Gary and his team are creating an agentic AI that breaks down complex longevity research, trending topics and expert perspectives into evidence-backed guidance. It also tracks your wearable data and provides guidance on the best way to achieve your health goals. Together, Stu, Marty and Gary discuss: Orthometria, Stu’s term describing an obsession with correct measurement of the self How different wearables can assess the same things differently The lack of standardization between devices like the Apple Watch, Whoop band or Oura ring The EverMe origin story The confusing world of signals we get from social media, wearables and agentic AIs, and how EverMe is designed to improve things Where this world of AI and wearables will eventually lead Send us ideas for future episodes, comments and listener questions at realexercisescience@gmail.com Exercise Science is powered by EverMe, the longevity intelligence app. To get a free, no credit card two-month trial to EverMe exclusively for Exercise Science listeners, go to: everme.ai/exercisescience EPISODE LINKS Stu’s orthometria post on LinkedIn Google search crediting Stu with coining the term The EverMe website Live Long and Prosper: The Globe and Mail’s feature article on EverMe Gary LeBlanc’s book, Find Your Superhuman, and personal website. He’s also on Instagram SHOW LINKS Follow or subscribe at your favourite platform @realexercisescience: Substack. YouTube. TikTok. Instagram. Apple Podcasts. Spotify. On X you can find us @realexscience. Find Stu on Instagram and X. Follow him on TikTok too! Marty is on Instagram. He’s also on X. Exercise Science is produced by Ghost Bureau, the Toronto content agency. DISCUSSION POINTS 00:00 Wearable tech experiences 00:36 Podcast introduction 01:21 Episode overview 02:19 Defining orthometria 02:57 Introducing Everme 06:25 Gary's origin story 07:42 Everme's distinct features 09:31 Data obsession 10:22 Information discernment 12:21 Proxies vs benchmarks 13:46 Reliable metrics 15:26 Building signals 17:00 Health guideline struggles 18:04 Reducing coaching friction 20:25 Behavioral tracking 22:13 Future of wellness 24:37 Humanity and tech 27:39 Purposeful technology use 29:15 Sifting social media 30:36 Assessing scientific credibility 33:06 Audience Q&A DISCLAIMER The Exercise Science podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Strength training and fitness carry inherent risks. Always consult with a physician or qualified healthcare provider before starting any new exercise program or making changes to your diet. The hosts, producers, sponsors and guests of this podcast disclaim any liability for any injuries or losses connected with the information discussed in this show. The science of strength and fitness is continually evolving. While we strive to provide accurate, evidence-based information, we make no representations or warranties regarding the completeness, accuracy, or timeliness of the information discussed. Martin Gibala is an advisor to and holds equity in Longevity League Ltd., a US-based company whose services in part relate to exercise.
#12
August 11 · 38 min
5 Hours a Week: Cardio Training Guidance for Recreational Athletes
You’re a busy person. Career, family, social obligations and everything else. What SHOULD you be doing for your cardio if you have just five hours a week to devote to your training? What’s the proper mix of long, slow effort, interval sessions and tempo bouts? How many times a week should you be getting out? And what’s the ideal duration per workout? To work out the answer, Marty and Stu invite on to the show the science journalist Alex Hutchinson, who has a physics Ph.D. from Cambridge and was on the Canadian national running team. He writes the Sweat Science column, on the science of human performance, for Outside magazine. He’s also the author of the bestselling books Endure and The Explorer’s Gene. Together, the guys discuss: the challenge of cardio training when you’re not a professional athlete. the current vogue for Marius Bakken and Norwegian Threshold training Norwegian Threshold Training’s implications for Zone 2 and other training protocols The optimal cardio training regimen for those who have five hours a week for training The challenge of intensity guidance and training thresholds Send us ideas for future episodes, comments and listener questions at realexercisescience@gmail.com Exercise Science is powered by EverMe, the longevity intelligence app. To get a free, no credit card two-month trial to EverMe exclusively for Exercise Science listeners, go to: everme.ai/exercisescience Thanks also to our sponsor BiaFit, your all-in-one fitness platform designed to help you become the best version of yourself. Enter the promotional code HARDFACTS at checkout to receive a 10% discount. Download BiaFit at your favorite app store, and learn more here: https://getbiafit.com/ Exercise Science sponsor Precision Nutrition is the #1 most recommended nutrition certification program in the world. And now it specializes in GLP-1 coaching. For a free assessment to learn your GLP-1 type, visit GLPCoaching.com. EPISODE LINKS Alex Hutchinson’s Sweat Science website. Substack. He’s also on Instagram. Hutchinson’s books: Endure. The Explorer’s Gene. 1964 5,000m final Olympic final results. Mentioned in this episode: The Norwegian Method Applied. Book by Marius Bakken MD Also here’s Brendan Gurd from Queen’s University. Recent guidance from the ACSM & ESSA: Physical Activity and Exercise Intensity Terminology. This episode’s listener question comes from Sandi Nypaver. Here’s here Instagram and her bio at Higher Running SHOW LINKS Follow or subscribe at your favourite platform @realexercisescience: Substack. YouTube. TikTok. Instagram. Apple Podcasts. Spotify. On X you can find us @realexscience. Stu is everywhere, too, but mostly on Instagram and X. Follow him on TikTok too! Marty just started his own Instagram. Give him a follow! He’s also on X!Exercise Science is produced by Ghost Bureau, the Toronto content agency. DISCUSSION POINTS 00:00 Episode introduction 00:52 Introducing Alex 03:00 Origin story 05:52 Brain's role 08:04 Sponsor break 10:40 Program optimality 12:50 Different approaches 14:55 Norwegian threshold 16:55 Training intensity 18:32 Individual differences 22:24 Threshold domains 24:32 Sponsor break 27:10 Interval routine 30:59 Resistance training 33:14 Current project 34:14 Listener question 37:00 Episode wrap-up DISCLAIMER The Exercise Science podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Strength training and fitness carry inherent risks. Always consult with a physician or qualified healthcare provider before starting any new exercise program or making changes to your diet. The hosts, producers, sponsors and guests of this podcast disclaim any liability for any injuries or losses connected with the information discussed in this show. Martin Gibala is an advisor to and holds equity in Longevity League Ltd., a US-based company whose services in part relate to exercise.
#11
August 4 · 36 min
Carbs vs. Keto: Fueling Optimal Performance with Louise Burke, Ph.D.
What’s the most efficient way to fuel human performance during endurance sports? Australian Louise Burke is one of the best-known sports nutritionists on the planet, known for her Supernova race-walking studies that showed that keto- and low carb, high fat diets don’t fuel endurance athletes as well as carbohydrate-burning approaches. She also practices what she researches, holding the women’s Australian marathon record in her age group—the age group, she jokes, of “never you mind.” In this episode Dr. Burke walks Stu and Marty through her research that found carb-based approaches to fueling yield about 5% more of the muscle cell’s energy currency, ATP, compared to fat-burning approaches, with carb-burning also yielding 7-8% better performance. She also: —discusses her own approach to fuelling endurance events —provides tips on carbohydrate periodization —answers a listener question about carb-loading —shows that carbs during a race are good for the brain GUEST BIO Professor Louise Burke OAM, PhD, APD is a sports dietitian with 45 years of experience in the education and counselling of elite athletes. She worked at the Australian Institute of Sport for thirty years, rising to Chief of Nutrition Strategy. She has attended 6 Summer Olympic Games with the Australian Olympic Team. She was awarded a Medal of the Order of Australia in 2009. Louise is the Chair in Sports Nutrition at Australian Catholic University . SOCIALS X: @LouiseMBurke IG: https://www.instagram.com/louiseburke4 Send us ideas for future episodes, comments and listener questions at realexercisescience@gmail.com Exercise Science is powered by EverMe, the longevity intelligence app. To get a free two-month trial, go to: everme.ai/exercisescience Thanks also to our sponsor BiaFit, your all-in-one fitness platform. Enter the promotional code HARDFACTS at checkout for a 10% discount: https://getbiafit.com/ Exercise Science sponsor Precision Nutrition is the #1 most recommended nutrition certification program in the world. For a free assessment to learn your GLP-1 type, visit GLPCoaching.com. EPISODE LINKS Re-examining high-fat diets for sports performance: Did we call the "nail in the coffin" too soon? Low carbohydrate, high fat diet impairs exercise economy. J Physiol. 2017 Organization of dietary control for nutrition-training intervention. Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2018 Crisis of confidence averted. PLoS One. 2020 Swimmer Eva Buzo’s trans-Adriatic swim chronicled here and in Balkan Insight. SHOW LINKS Follow or subscribe at your favourite platform @realexercisescience: Substack. YouTube. TikTok. Instagram. Apple Podcasts. On X you can find us @realexscience. Stu is everywhere, too, but mostly on Instagram and X. Follow him on TikTok too! Marty is on Instagram. He’s also on X! Exercise Science is produced by Ghost Bureau. DISCUSSION POINTS 00:00 Cold open 02:33 Louise Burke intro 03:45 Field Origins 04:55 Glycogen Supercompensation 06:53 Carbohydrate Periodization 09:02 High-Fat Diets 11:56 Carbohydrate Downregulation 13:49 Keto Diet Hype 17:02 Supernova Program 21:18 Study Results 24:12 Carb vs. Keto 26:45 Recreational Application 30:37 Burke Uses Keto 32:06 LQ: Race Fueling DISCLAIMER The Exercise Science podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Strength training and fitness carry inherent risks. Always consult with a physician or qualified healthcare provider before starting any new exercise program or making changes to your diet. The hosts, producers, sponsors and guests of this podcast disclaim any liability for any injuries or losses connected with the information discussed in this show. Martin Gibala is an advisor to and holds equity in Longevity League Ltd., a US-based company whose services in part relate to exercise.
#10
July 28 · 42 min
Strength Training for Older People with Ashley Gluchowski, Ph.D.
You have an older person in your life, or perhaps you are an older person yourself and you need that push to start strength training. This is the episode for you—because today we’re talking with Ashley Gluchowski, Ph.D., one of the most enthusiastic evangelists on strength training around and the University of Salford exercise scientist who helps older adults get stronger, improve balance and reduce risk of falls. In this episode we discuss: The surprising activities of daily living that require strength as we get older Why older adults should be doing strength training The association between strength and decreased dementia risk How to get over being intimidated by strength training The long-term benefits of making exercise social Tips on how older adults can stick with strength-building programs Ashley is a clinical exercise physiologist and former student of Stu Phillips’ who has gone on to found Stronger At Home, a program designed to get older adults to start and stick with strength training (link below). She has years of experience working with older adults on how to start and stick with strength training—and in this episode, Stu and Marty interview her about what works (exercise classes), and what doesn’t (patronizing trainers). According to Ashley, “the short-term benefits of becoming stronger and more active include better glucose regulation, improved mood, increased energy, and better sleep.” The stereotype is that strength training is just for young people. But older people fighting sarcopenia are the ones who will most benefit from strength training most of all! Send us ideas for future episodes, comments and listener questions at realexercisescience@gmail.com Exercise Science is powered by EverMe, the longevity intelligence app. To get a free two-month trial, go to: everme.ai/exercisescience Thanks also to our sponsor BiaFit, your all-in-one fitness platform. Enter the code HARDFACTS at checkout to receive a one-time 10% discount. Download BiaFit at your favorite app store. Learn more here: https://getbiafit.com/ Exercise Science sponsor Precision Nutrition is the #1 most recommended nutrition certification program in the world. And now it specializes in GLP-1 coaching. For a free assessment to learn your GLP-1 type, visit GLPCoaching.com. LINKS Dr. Ashley Gluchowski on instagram @drashleygstrongerwithage Dr. Ashley Gluchowski’s website strongerahome.com The Antifrail paper that Stu and Ashley wrote Handgrip strength and all-cause dementia incidence and mortality: UK Biobank study SHOW LINKS Follow or subscribe at your favourite platform @realexercisescience: Substack. YouTube. TikTok. Instagram. Apple Podcasts. Spotify. On X you can find us @realexscience. Stu is everywhere, too, but mostly on Instagram and X. Follow him on TikTok too! Marty just started his own Instagram. Give him a follow! He’s also on X! Exercise Science is produced by Ghost Bureau, the Toronto content agency. DISCUSSION POINTS 00:00 Cold open 01:03 Dr. Ashley Gluchowski’s story 06:48 Why strength train 08:30 Starting strength training 13:57 More reasons to strength train 17:22 Muscle power for older adults 20:44 The intimidation factor 22:47 Four reps 29:21 Tips for beginners 32:12 Squat variations 34:27 Four reps in practice 39:08 Listener question: Osteoarthritis DISCLAIMER The Exercise Science podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Strength training and fitness carry inherent risks. Always consult with a physician or qualified healthcare provider before starting any new exercise program or making changes to your diet. The hosts, producers, sponsors and guests of this podcast disclaim any liability for any injuries or losses connected with the information discussed in this show. Martin Gibala is an advisor to and holds equity in Longevity League Ltd., a US-based company whose services in part relate to exercise.
#9
July 21 · 46 min
How Much Protein Do You Need? | Stuart Phillips, McMaster University
It’s no longer just the longevity bros and fitness fiends obsessing over their protein intake. So what does the science actually say about protein consumption? How much do you need, and what’s the best way to get it? In today’s episode, Marty takes our own in-house world-renowned protein expert Stuart Phillips through the math behind the macros. In this episode Stu and Marty discuss: Stu says why the old guideline of 0.8 g/kg body weight wasn’t enough Does the benefit of protein hit a hard plateau at 1.6 g per kg per day? How much protein do you need if you want to stay strong as you get older? How much protein do you need if you want to lose weight but hold on to muscle? What’s better, vegan or animal protein? Send us ideas for future episodes, comments and listener questions at realexercisescience@gmail.com Exercise Science is powered by EverMe, the longevity intelligence app. To get a free two-month trial, go to: everme.ai/exercisescience Our sponsor Biafit is your all-in-one fitness platform. Enter the promotional code HARDFACTS at checkout to receive a one-time 10% discount. Download BiaFit at your favorite app store: https://getbiafit.com/ Exercise Science sponsor Precision Nutrition is the #1 most recommended nutrition certification program in the world. And now it specializes in GLP-1 coaching. For a free assessment to learn your GLP-1 type, visit GLPCoaching.com. LINKS Stu’s essay on protein in The Conversation: The Year that Protein Jumped the Shark High-Protein Food Market Size to Hit USD 117.44 Billion by 2034 Mentioned in the podcast: The book, Nutrient Timing, by John Ivy Shawn Arent paper Stu mentions: Nutrient Timing: A Garage Door of Opportunity Friend of the show Mark Tarnopolsky’s fascinating paper on the protein needs of bodybuilders versus endurance athletes Load-induced Human Skeletal Muscle Hypertrophy - Journal of Sport and Health Science Effect of protein supplementation on resistance training-induced gains in muscle mass and strength - British Journal of Sports Medicine Stu calls this the “Tom Longland” paper in the episode, from the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition: Higher compared with lower dietary protein during an energy deficit Resistance Training Prescription for Muscle Function, Hypertrophy, and Physical Performance - American College of Sports Medicine Protein intake to support muscle mass and function in healthy adults - Journal of Cachexia, Sarcopenia and Muscle Dietary Guidelines for Americans - USDA SHOW LINKS Follow or subscribe at your favourite platform @realexercisescience: Substack. YouTube. TikTok. Instagram. Apple Podcasts. Spotify. On X you can find us @realexscience. Stu's socials: Instagram and X. Follow him on TikTok too! Marty's Instagram. He’s also on X! Exercise Science is produced by Ghost Bureau, the Toronto content agency. DISCUSSION POINTS 00:00 Cold open 03:45 What is protein? 05:39 How much protein should I eat? 08:59 Kidneys 10:56 Where did 0.8 come from? 14:54 How much protein is too much? 18:41 Protein for older people 21:57 Protein timing 23:28 Post-workout protein intake 24:45 Weight loss and protein 27:39 GLP-1s and protein 30:29 GLP-1 protein recommendation 31:13 Plant vs. animal protein 33:58 Leucine 35:13 Takeaways 40:40 Future research 44:37 Listener question: Avoiding protein bloat DISCLAIMER The Exercise Science podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Strength training and fitness carry inherent risks. Always consult with a physician or qualified healthcare provider before starting any new exercise program or making changes to your diet. The hosts, producers, sponsors and guests of this podcast disclaim any liability for any injuries or losses connected with the information discussed in this show. Martin Gibala is an advisor to and holds equity in Longevity League Ltd., a US-based company whose services in part relate to exercise.
#8
July 14 · 27 min
Exercise Snacks & VILPA: The Ultimate Explainer
A little morsel of an episode on exercise snacks and Vigorous Intermittent Lifestyle Physical Activity, known as VILPA. Along with a handful of scientists around the world, Marty is leading research into the health benefits of short, vigorous bouts of exercise that are scattered through the day. One key finding is that just four minutes of vigorous physical activity can decrease risk of all-cause mortality by 25%. So in our eighth episode, Stu leads Marty through a discussion of the research into the benefits of short, vigorous bouts of physical activity. The guys discuss: —What’s the difference between exercise snacks and VILPA? —What health benefits are provided by short, vigorous bursts of exercise scattered throughout the day? —What are some examples of great exercise snacks that anyone can do? —What’s the shortest amount of exercise that will make a difference to one’s health? Finally, we explore the idea that exercise snacks and VILPA may be able to liberate physical activity from the confines of planned gym visits that require special clothing and fancy equipment. Send us ideas for future episodes, comments and listener questions at realexercisescience@gmail.com Exercise Science is powered by EverMe, the longevity intelligence app. To get a free two-month trial to EverMe exclusively for Exercise Science listeners, go to: everme.ai/exercisescience Thanks also to our sponsor BiaFit, your all-in-one fitness platform designed to help you become the best version of yourself. Enter the promotional code HARDFACTS at checkout to receive a one-time 10% discount on the purchased subscription. Download BiaFit at your favorite app store, and learn more here: https://getbiafit.com/ Exercise Science sponsor Precision Nutrition is the #1 most recommended nutrition certification program in the world. And now it specializes in GLP-1 coaching. For a free assessment to learn your GLP-1 type, visit GLPCoaching.com. EPISODE LINKS Great explainer video on exercise snacking featuring Martin Gibala Marty and Jon Little Diabetologia study: Bodyweight exercise snacks totalling 4 min of vigorous activity per day led to small, yet statistically significant improvements. Technology-Enabled Exercise Snacks - Scandinavian Journal of Medicine and Science in Sports Once and thrice weekly interval training in adults with central obesity: a randomized controlled trial: Gibala 2026 The Stamatakis study that Marty co-authored: The sample median VILPA duration of 4.4 min per day was associated with a 26%–30% reduction in all-cause and cancer mortality risk. SHOW LINKS Follow or subscribe at your favourite platform @realexercisescience: Substack. YouTube. TikTok. Instagram. Apple Podcasts. Spotify. On X you can find us @realexscience. Stu is everywhere, too, but mostly on Instagram and X. Follow him on TikTok too! Marty's Instagram. He’s also on X! Exercise Science is produced by Ghost Bureau, the Toronto content agency. DISCUSSION POINTS 00:00 Introduction 01:04 Episode outline 02:47 What are exercise snacks? 03:30 VILPA explained 05:45 Emerging research 07:55 VILPA benefits 10:10 Bus drivers 12:47 Snack physiology 13:50 Future research 15:51 Diabetologia study 16:39 Guidelines 18:36 Vigorous explained 19:15 Liberating exercise 21:24 Just four minutes! 22:56 Snack suggestions 24:05 Listener question DISCLAIMER The Exercise Science podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Strength training and fitness carry inherent risks. Always consult with a physician or qualified healthcare provider before starting any new exercise program or making changes to your diet. The hosts, producers, sponsors and guests of this podcast disclaim any liability for any injuries or losses connected with the information discussed in this show. Martin Gibala is an advisor to and holds equity in Longevity League Ltd., a US-based company whose services in part relate to exercise.
July 7 · 42 min
Mythbusting the Most-Hyped Peptides
Peptides like BPC-157, TB-500, CJC-1295 and retatrutide are among the hottest trends for optimizers, gym bros, looksmaxxers and the longevity crowd. But is it wise to inject bioactive molecules into the bloodstream that haven’t passed the drug approval process? In this episode, Marty and Stu welcome the Harvard- and Stanford-educated Leigh Baxt, who mythbusts about peptides and other panaceas on Instagram @sciencemomscicomm. Baxt is a translational scientist who specializes in drug development. She points out the many problems with injecting peptides into the body, including the major one that many of these peptides are activating biological pathways that cancer cells love. In this episode we discuss the following questions: What are peptides? Are peptides safe? Quick guide to peptides like BPC-157, TB-500, CJC-1295 and retatrutide What do peptides do? What is a wolverine stack? Finally, we also walk through the drug-approval process that protects human beings from predatory marketing, and say what Marty, Stu and Leigh think is so wrong about promoting peptides to young people. What scientific evidence supports peptide use? Find the answer in our latest episode: realexercisescience.com Exercise Science is powered by EverMe, the longevity intelligence app. To get a free two-month trial to EverMe exclusively for Exercise Science listeners, go to: everme.ai/exercisescience Thanks also to our sponsor Biafit, your all-in-one fitness platform designed to help you become the best version of yourself. Enter the promotional code HARDFACTS at checkout to receive a one-time 10% discount on the purchased subscription. Download BiaFit at your favorite app store, and learn more here: https://getbiafit.com/ EPISODE LINKS Leigh Baxt is on Instagram @sciencemomscicomm Leigh collaborates heavily with Unbiased Science: https://www.unbiasedscience.com/ Leigh was also on Simon Hill: Are Peptides Safe? What You Need to Know About BPC-157 Retatrutide phase 2 trial for obesity in the New England Journal of Medicine Good overview from Patricia Brubaker on problems with injecting peptides Want to hack your body with peptides? The Economist opines SHOW LINKS Follow or subscribe at your favourite platform @realexercisescience: Substack. YouTube. TikTok. Instagram. Apple Podcasts. Spotify. On X you can find us @realexscience. Stu is everywhere, too, but mostly on Instagram and X. Follow him on TikTok too! Marty just started his own Instagram. Give him a follow! He’s also on X! Exercise Science is produced by Ghost Bureau, the Toronto content agency. DISCUSSION POINTS 00:00 Cold open 01:02 Introducing Leigh Baxt 04:54 What are peptides? 07:25 Antivaxxers 09:24 BPC-157 11:05 TB-500 12:20 Wolverine stacking 13:10 CJC-1295 13:55 Retatrutide 16:28 Drug approval process 18:08 Peptides & cancer 20:12 Most drugs fail 22:03 Are peptides safe 23:52 Peptides & patents 26:28 Peptide categories 27:35 What’s wrong with wolverine stacks 29:54 Drug interactions 31:53 Why are peptides so hot? 34:27 Predatory marketing 37:21 Peptide predictions DISCLAIMER The Exercise Science podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Strength training and fitness carry inherent risks. Always consult with a physician or qualified healthcare provider before starting any new exercise program or making changes to your diet. The hosts, producers, sponsors and guests of this podcast disclaim any liability for any injuries or losses connected with the information discussed in this show. Martin Gibala is an advisor to and holds equity in Longevity League Ltd., a US-based company whose services in part relate to exercise. Leigh Baxt does not represent her employer on this platform and all views expressed are her own.
#1
June 30 · 48 min
What to Do Instead of Zone 2 | Mike Joyner, Mayo Clinic
If you’re a serious recreational athlete but you have a job and a life, and only five hours a week to train — what should you be doing? This week, Stu and Marty provide the answer with the help of one of the world’s foremost experts on aerobic conditioning and the limits of human performance, Dr. Michael Joyner of the Mayo Clinic. Dr. Joyner is a legend of the exercise science field and an elite runner himself, who back in 1991 conducted the first analysis establishing the physiologic possibility of a sub-two-hour marathon. Since our conversation with Joyner happened to fall just days after Sabastian Sawe achieved the first official sub-2:00 marathon times earlier this spring, the conversation begins with a discussion of Joyner’s 1991 analysis. Then Marty and Stu challenge Joyner to get specific about what amateur athletes should be doing, if they want to achieve the best possible aerobic fitness for health. How much vigorous training should we all be doing, relative to moderate- and low-intensity training? Plus a listener question asking how to know when you’re training too much. Have a listener question? Email us at realexercisescience@gmail.com Exercise Science is powered by EverMe, the longevity intelligence app. Exercise Science listeners get a free two-month trial to EverMe at this link. You can also download EverMe for free at your favourite app store. SHOW LINKS Follow or subscribe at your favourite platform @realexercisescience: Substack. YouTube. TikTok. Instagram. Apple Podcasts. On X you can find us @realexscience. Stu is everywhere, too, but mostly on Instagram and X. Marty just started his own Instagram. Give him a follow! He’s also on X! Exercise Science is produced by Ghost Bureau, the Toronto content agency. EPISODE LINKS Two runners break fabled two hour marathon barrier. Friend of Exercise Science Alex Hutchinson wrote about it for The Atlantic. Joyner’s famous 2011 article: The Two Hour Marathon: Who and When? Mike Joyner’s 1991 paper that is a staple in Marty’s Integrative Physiology class: Modeling: optimal marathon performance on the basis of physiological factors. PubMed. Full PDF. Dr. Michael Joyner’s website — been awhile since he updated it but fascinating nonetheless Andy Jones’ paper referenced by Joyner: The fourth dimension: physiological resilience as an independent determinant of endurance exercise performance - The Journal of Physiology Adaptations to swimming training: influence of training volume - Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise Physiological demands of running at 2-hour marathon race pace - Journal of Applied Physiology A Perspective on High-Intensity Interval Training for Performance and Health - Sports Med The “How They Train” series by Fred Wilt DISCUSSION POINTS 00:00 Intro 02:44 Welcoming Dr. Michael Joyner 03:45 Joyner reacts to 2:00 04:47 Who is Joyner? 06:18 Marathon predictions 11:13 Joyner prediction reception 13:03 Performance determinants 15:51 Other performance determinants 18:59 Elite characteristics 20:50 How elite is elite 22:03 Joyner on Zone 2 26:55 Joyner’s training haiku 29:30 Optimal intensities 30:40 Long intervals key 32:22 Is 80/20 wasting time? 33:43 Resistance training 35:00 Do SOMETHING 36:51 Zone 2 too low 38:51 Vigorous benefits 40:37 What Joyner does 42:35 More haikus 43:59 Listener question 46:52 Wrap up DISCLAIMER The Exercise Science podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Strength training and fitness carry inherent risks. Always consult with a physician or qualified healthcare provider before starting any new exercise program or making changes to your diet. The hosts, producers, sponsors and guests of this podcast disclaim any liability for any injuries or losses connected with the information discussed in this show. Martin Gibala is an advisor to and holds equity in Longevity League Ltd., a US-based company whose services in part relate to exercise.
#5
June 23 · 55 min
Muscle Mass & Weight Loss Drugs: Overblown Fears or Justified Concerns?
Semaglutide, sold as Ozempic and Wegovy, and tirzepatide, sold as Zepbound and Mounjaro, are new weight loss drugs that actually work, helping millions around the world to feel better and become healthier. But some people are fearful of side effects, such as loss of muscle mass. Are their fears warranted? To find out, Marty and Stu talk to the two University of Kansas weight-loss scientists, Renee Rogers and ACSM president-elect John Jakicic, who are leading a clinical trial investigating the way aerobic and resistance training can affect the muscle mass of people who are on GLP-1s, or the other new weight loss drugs. In this episode: —how GLP-1s affect muscle mass —the difference between lean and muscle mass —the research that Jakicic and Rogers are doing into GLP-1s —guidance on whether people should be concerned about GLP-1s and muscle mass —how to minimize muscle loss while on GLP-1s Plus, whether the new weight loss drugs affect men and women differently. Have a listener question? Email us at realexercisescience@gmail.com Exercise Science is powered by EverMe, the longevity intelligence app. Exercise Science listeners get a free two-month trial to EverMe at this link. You can also download EverMe for free at your favourite app store. Exercise Science sponsor Precision Nutrition is the #1 most recommended nutrition certification program in the world. And now it specializes in GLP-1 coaching. For a free assessment to learn your GLP-1 type, visit GLPCoaching.com. LINKS Follow or subscribe at your favourite platform @realexercisescience: Substack. YouTube. TikTok. Instagram. Apple Podcasts. Spotify. On X you can find us @realexscience. Stu is everywhere, too, but mostly on Instagram and X. Follow him on TikTok too! Marty just started his own Instagram. Give him a follow! He’s also on X! Exercise Science is produced by Ghost Bureau, the Toronto content agency. EPISODE LINKS New York Times: They Hated Exercise. Weight Loss Drugs Changed Everything. Renee Rogers and John Jakicic’s clinical trial: Muscle and Movement With Anti-Obesity Medications (M3) A paper by John Jakicic and Renee Rogers advocating for a prescription of exercise along with obesity medication: The Role of Exercise in the Contemporary Era of Obesity Management Medications Jakicic led, and Rogers coauthored, the largest NIH investment into how physical activity improves health and prevents disease. Study website. Journal article: Molecular Transducers of Physical Activity Consortium (MoTrPAC): human studies design and protocol Analysis: Preserving muscle mass on GLP-1 weight loss drugs: Big Deal or Nothing to Worry About? By Stuart Phillips DISCUSSION POINTS 00:00 Cold open 01:29 Muscle mass and GLP-1s 04:19 Introducing Renee and John 06:19 GLP-1 context 07:50 How GLP-1s work 10:50 More than GLP-1s 12:44 Body composition & weight loss 15:00 Lean tissue is not muscle 16:50 Overblown fears 18:55 Muscle moment 20:39 R01 study described 23:15 Early results 26:04 Behavioural influences 28:45 Rediscovering exercise 31:09 Comprehensive care 33:00 Renting weight loss 36:55 Obesity drivers 37:47 Older adults 40:39 Wraparound care 41:30 Muscle health context 43:12 Function measures matter 44:44 Lean v. muscle 46:15 Unloading the body 47:40 GLP-1 sex differences 49:44 How to minimize muscle loss on GLP-1s 53:33 Wrap up DISCLAIMER The Exercise Science podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Strength training and fitness carry inherent risks. Always consult with a physician or qualified healthcare provider before starting any new exercise program or making changes to your diet. The hosts, producers, sponsors and guests of this podcast disclaim any liability for any injuries or losses connected with the information discussed in this show. Martin Gibala is an advisor to and holds equity in Longevity League Ltd., a US-based company whose services in part relate to exercise.
S1 · E4
June 16 · 35 min
VO₂max: The Fifth Vital Sign
VO₂max is the most important metric of your overall cardiorespiratory fitness. It’s a measure of the maximal ability of your body to take in and use oxygen. But what does the number actually mean for your health and longevity? Why is it important to know your VO₂max? What’s the most effective way to improve your VO₂max, whether you’re an athlete or just someone seeking to improve your health? And what does this all have to do with beer-league hockey, and everybody’s favourite Sudbury Blueberry Bulldog, Shoresy? In this episode, Stuart Phillips asks Martin Gibala to break down VO₂max in plain English: what it is, why it matters, and how it shapes everything from your risk of dying to how fast you can run a 10K. And just to get the kin grad students among us even more excited, this episode namedrops the Hickson Protocol, plus legends of kinesiology like Robert Ross, Ulrik Wisløff and Carsten Lundby. Pitter patter, let’s get at ‘er! Have a listener question or an idea for an episode? Email us at realexercisescience@gmail.com Exercise Science is powered by EverMe. Download EverMe for free at your favourite App store. LINKS Exercise Science is everywhere @realexercisescience: Substack. YouTube. TikTok. Instagram. Apple Podcasts. Spotify. On X you can find us @realexscience. Stu is everywhere, too, but mostly on Instagram and X. Follow him on TikTok to make him feel nice! Marty just started his own Instagram. Give him a follow! He’s also on X!Exercise Science is produced by Ghost Bureau, the Toronto content marketing agency. A Case for Fitness as a Clinical Vital Sign: The academic paper Marty references, that argues that MDs should assess VO₂max during each patient visit. The Hickson protocol is described here, featuring six sessions per week, including three sessions of continuous vigorous in which the athletes ran as far as they could in 40 minutes, interspersed with three interval training bouts per week. The interval training amounted to six sessions of five-minute-long intervals during which the athletes tried to achieve VO₂max in each interval. Protocols to test VO₂max by proxy: YMCA fitness test is described in this academic paper. Plus here’s a better description of the 3-min step test. An impressively accurate non-exercise predictor of VO₂max is based on a survey at worldfitnesslevel.org. VO₂max test footage from McMaster University Wisløff Hunt Study one high-intensity bout of week v. cardiac risk Wisløff 2001 out of Norwegian University of Science and Technology with elite male junior soccer players, 2x a week for eight weeks boosted VO₂max by 11%. Wisløff 2008 with sedentary middle-aged men and women with metabolic syndrome, 3x a week for 16 weeks, improved VO₂max by 35%, more than twice as much as a control that performed continuous moderate exercise. Martin Gibala contributed to Wisløff’s 2013 paper, showing most of the benefits from an interval workout come from the first sprint. DISCUSSION POINTS 00:00 Cardio v. Strength 02:08 VO₂max explained 06:08 Heart’s role 08:41 Clinical vital sign 10:36 Benefits of boosting VO₂max 12:11 Assessing VO₂max 13:51 Ulrik Wisløff 15:15 Beer league hockey 17:07 VO₂max ranges 20:59 More boosting benefits 24:16 VO₂max trainability 27:00 Highest recorded values 29:30 How to improve VO₂max 31:27 Hickson protocol 33:38 Fastest way to boost DISCLAIMER The Exercise Science podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Strength training and fitness carry inherent risks. Always consult with a physician or qualified healthcare provider before starting any new exercise program or making changes to your diet. The hosts, producers, sponsors and guests of this podcast disclaim any liability for any injuries or losses connected with the information discussed in this show. Martin Gibala is an advisor to and holds equity in Longevity League Ltd., a US-based company whose services in part relate to exercise.
S1 · E3
June 9 · 39 min
Brad Schoenfeld's Top 5 Strength Myths BUSTED!
Think you know how to build muscle? In our third episode, Martin Gibala does some mythbusting with two of the world’s most prominent experts in the science of strength development, Stuart Phillips and special guest Dr. Brad Schoenfeld, a professor of exercise science at Lehman College in the Bronx, New York. In addition to being a former bodybuilder and joining Stu on the ACSM strength position statement, Schoenfeld literally wrote the textbook on strength training. Together, Phillips and Schoenfeld use science and savvy to correct some of the resistance world’s most pervasive myths, including: Light loads don't increase muscle size You have to train to absolute failure to maximize muscular adaptations Short rest periods are best for hypertrophy Cardio kills gains Narrow post-exercise anabolic window of opportunity Join us to discuss these myths and more in the latest episode of Exercise Science! Have a listener question or an idea for an episode? Email us at realexercisescience@gmail.com Exercise Science is powered by ⁠⁠EverMe⁠⁠. Download EverMe for free at your favourite App store. ⁠⁠ LINKS Exercise Science is everywhere @realexercisescience: Substack. YouTube. TikTok. Instagram. Apple Podcasts. Spotify. On X you can find us @realexscience. Stu is everywhere, too, but mostly on Instagram and X. Follow him on TikTok to make him feel nice! Marty just started his own Instagram. Give him a follow! He’s also on X! Whoa Brad Schoenfeld is HUGE on Instagram! One of the best feeds out there for the up-to-the-minute science on strength training. Plus here’s his lab at Lehman College. ACSM Position Statement on Resistance Training 2026 Brad’s textbook: Science and Development of Muscle Hypertrophy, 2nd Edition Resistance Training Beyond Momentary Failure⁠⁠⁠ - Brad Schoenfeld, co-author Divergent strength gains but similar hypertrophy after low-load and high-load resistance exercise training in trained individuals: ⁠⁠⁠many roads lead to Rome⁠⁠⁠ Exercise Science is produced by Ghost Bureau, the Toronto content marketing agency. DISCUSSION POINTS 00:00 Strongest exercise scientist? 02:13 Schoenfeld intro 03:47 Myth 1: Must lift heavy 06:25 Myth 2: Must train to failure 10:52 Myth 3: Short rest periods 17:26 Myth 4: Anabolic window 26:33 Myth 5: Cardio kills gains 36:54 LQ: Losing gains DISCLAIMER The Exercise Science podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Strength training and fitness carry inherent risks. Always consult with a physician or qualified healthcare provider before starting any new exercise program or making changes to your diet. The hosts, producers, sponsors and guests of this podcast disclaim any liability for any injuries or losses connected with the information discussed in this show. The science of strength and fitness is continually evolving. While we strive to provide accurate, evidence-based information, we make no representations or warranties regarding the completeness, accuracy, or timeliness of the information discussed.
S1 · E2
June 1 · 30 min
Much Ado About Zone 2
Influencers can’t get enough of Zone 2 low-intensity training. So why did Martin Gibala publish a research paper challenging Zone 2 for the general public? In this episode, Stuart Phillips leads Marty through a critical examination of Zone 2. Marty suggests that very little scientific research exists to support Zone 2 training intensity for most people—either as an effective stimulus for cardiorespiratory fitness or mitochondrial capacity. In fact, if you do between three and six hours of cardio a week, Marty believes that Zone 2 isn’t hard enough for you to efficiently accrue training benefits. In other words, if you’re an amateur athlete subscribing to the much-vaunted rule that 80% of your cardio should be in Zone 2, you’re not as fit as you otherwise could be. So what is Zone 2 training? And is Zone 2 causing many people to exercise inefficiently, leaving them less healthy than they otherwise might be? What should people be doing INSTEAD of Zone 2? It’s all here, in the latest episode of Exercise Science! Have a listener question or an idea for an episode? Email us at realexercisescience@gmail.com LINKS Marty and Brendon Gurd’s critical examination of Zone 2: Much Ado About Zone 2: A Narrative Review Assessing the Efficacy of Zone 2 Training for Improving Mitochondrial Capacity and Cardiorespiratory Fitness in the General Population Marty’s coauthor Brendon Gurd on their Zone 2 paper at the Discover Strength podcast. Luke Carlson calls the “Much Ado About Zone 2” paper the most important scientific publication of 2025 in this blog post summarizing the paper. HIIT and Zone 2: Marty on the Discover Strength podcast Sperlich paper referenced in this episode: Zone 2 Intensity: A Critical Comparison of Individual Variability in Different Submaximal Exercise Intensity Boundaries Marty was a coauthor on this ACSM/ESSA position statement on exercise intensities Marty was senior author on this Sports Medicine paper on exercise intensity in high-intensity activity, which features the intensity diagram Marty mentions Lifehacker’s Beth Skwarecki notes, Nobody Can Agree On What Zone 2 Is Oura’s heart rate zones Whoop band’s heart rate zones Garmin’s heart rate zones Peter Attia on Zone 2: This Is How You Know If You’re in Zone 2 When Doing Cardio More Attia: This is What Zone 2 Training Looks Like Attia saying 80% of cardio should be Zone 2 Origins of Zone 2: Attia and San Milan in the early days of the trend Find Stu Phillips on most platforms @mackinprof Find Martin Gibala on Instagram, which he just joined, @gibalamj   Exercise Science is powered by EverMe. Download EverMe for free at your favourite App store. DISCUSSION POINTS 00:00 Exercise fads 00:34 Intros 02:30 What Zone 2 is 04:21 No uniform definition 06:02 Lactate threshold 08:10 Zone 2 marker variability 09:54 Ventilatory threshold 11:57 Conflation with moderate 12:58 Improving exercise prescriptions 14:40 Health v. performance 16:04 Moderate intensity is better 16:58 80/20 split 18:45 Better alternatives 19:47 Zone 2 origins 20:39 Wearable intensities 22:09 Threshold testing options 23:14 Training for health 24:21 Take-home message 26:05 Vigorous is better 26:44 Listener question DISCLAIMER The Exercise Science podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Strength training and fitness carry inherent risks. Always consult with a physician or qualified healthcare provider before starting any new exercise program or making changes to your diet. The hosts, producers, sponsors and guests of this podcast disclaim any liability for any injuries or losses connected with the information discussed in this show.
S1 · E1
May 26 · 37 min
Strength Training for Everybody!
Our co-host Stuart Phillips was the senior author on the ACSM’s gold-standard strength training position statement, a.k.a. “the most comprehensive evidence-based guidance to date on how resistance training supports muscle strength, muscle size (hypertrophy), power, and physical performance across adulthood.” In the premiere episode of Exercise Science, co-host Martin Gibala takes Stu through the American College of Sports Medicine update, the first position statement in 17 years. Parsing the science, together, Stu and Marty break down why strength is the ultimate compound interest investment for your health span. How important is strength training? Why should you consider strength training 2x per week to be just as important as the other main exercise-related health guideline, 150 minutes of moderate-intensity exercise per week? Plus: How much strength training is enough? What’s the minimum that you should do? What changed during the 17 years between position stands? And how did a 1940s bodybuilding doctor rehabbing soldiers pave the way for modern strength training?Forget the oiled-up pumping-iron musclehead stereotype. In 2026, strength training is officially for EVERYONE. And if you’re going to listen to just one podcast about the new guidelines — make it this episode of Exercise Science! LINKS Exercise Science is everywhere @realexercisescience: Substack. YouTube. TikTok. Instagram. Apple Podcasts. Spotify. On X you can find us @realexscience. Stu is everywhere, too, but mostly on Instagram and X. Follow him on TikTok to make him feel nice! Marty just started his own Instagram. Give him a follow! He’s also on X! ACSM Position Stand 2026: The scientific article in Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise Here’s the press release about the stand from the ACSM, and a great succinct infographic summarizing the main takeaways Here are the two previous ACSM position stands on strength: 2009 and 2002 Thomas L. DeLorme and the Medical Acceptance Of Progressive Resistance Exercise - Iron Game History Thomas L. DeLorme and the Science of Progressive Resistance Exercise - Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research (Abstract) Among the four students on the position stand, Stu said Brad Currier brought the evidence together, did the lion’s share of the writing and herded the cats All about Ken Cooper, a seminal expert on aerobic fitness who came to understand the importance of strength training Honoring the legacy of Steve N. Blair, a giant in the field of exercise epidemiology Marty and Stu’s MOOC: Hacking Exercise for Health Exercise Science is produced by Ghost Bureau in Toronto. DISCUSSION POINTS 00:00 Marty teases Stu 01:20 Episode outline 02:34 What’s a position stand? 03:36 What is the ACSM? 03:52 Building the team 05:00 What’s new in 2026 06:20 Levels of scientific papers 07:10 2026 v. 2009 08:12 Recommendations 09:30 Effort v. failure 10:38 Volume of training 12:30 Home-based options 14:06 Advice for newbies 15:13 Strength explained 18:57 Power explained 19:37 Why now? 22:17 Weight training for women 23:03 Capt. Thomas L. Delorme 25:36 Circus strongmen 26:30 Outdated philosophies 28:01 Barriers to entry 29:33 No pain, no gain is dead 31:45 Safety 33:30 Where to start 35:00 Takeaways 35:50 Listener question 36:50 Outro DISCLAIMER The Exercise Science podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Strength training and fitness carry inherent risks. Always consult with a physician or qualified healthcare provider before starting any new exercise program or making changes to your diet. The hosts, producers, sponsors and guests of this podcast disclaim any liability for any injuries or losses connected with the information discussed in this show.
March 13 · 2 min
The Exercise Science Podcast Coming Spring 2026
Kinesiology professor Martin Gibala is the worldwide expert on time-efficient cardio. Kinesiology professor Stuart Phillips is the global expert on strength, muscle development and protein. In Exercise Science, these two friends and colleagues translate the world of exercise science for the rest of us — separating the hype from the hard evidence.

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