Distance To Empty

Kevin Goldberg and Peter Noyes

Become a Subscriber: http://patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod

Distance To Empty will take its audience deep into the world of ultra-endurance running, with a particular focus on races exceeding 200 miles. Through in-depth interviews with athletes, race organizers and sports scientists, the episodes shed light on the unique challenges and strategies involved in tackling these extreme distances. Tune in and learn what it takes to reach your distance to empty.

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July 1 · 57 min
"Reach Higher" Lindsey Dwyer on Goals and Cocodona 250
Become a Distance to Empty subscriber!: https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors! ⁠⁠https://janji.com/pages/distance-to-empty⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you! Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Code IRON at www.goodranchers.com and mention us in the post purchase survey! Lindsey Dwyer: Cleaning Up the Mess at Cocodona 250 Middle school PE teacher by day, 250-mile ultrarunner by... well, by 72 hours and 48 minutes straight. Lindsey Dwyer joins the show fresh off a 5th-place finish at Cocodona 2026 — a full seven hours faster than her debut the year before, with nearly four of those hours saved just by spending less time loitering at aid stations. In this conversation, Lindsey breaks down what it actually takes to come back to a race and "clean it up": the rookie mistakes she refused to repeat (no more fun-runs in a dust storm the day before), racing against the sunrise for her B-goal, and why she sets A-goals she only expects to hit half the time. She talks candidly about battling her asthma through smoke-choked air, losing her voice for the entire second half, and gutting out two pacer-less night sections — including a lonely, viewless summit of Mount Elden at mile 230 where her sister's midnight phone calls kept her moving. We also get into her training philosophy (big volume, reluctant strength work, lots of zone two), the growing pains of going from self-coached to working with Coach Leo Perschel, how she squeezes altitude and heat training around a teacher's three personal days a year, her Rio del Lago course record, a top-20 at UTMB, and what's next at the Mammoth 200. Plus: breakfast tacos with HEB tortillas, why the pack is the one piece of gear you can't get wrong, and whether Lindsey has found her distance to empty. (Spoiler: not even close.)
June 17 · 1 hr 15 min
The Cocodona 250 Last Man Standing: Six Years & Counting
Become a Distance to Empty subscriber!: https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors! ⁠⁠https://janji.com/pages/distance-to-empty⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you! Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Code IRON at www.goodranchers.com and mention us in the post purchase survey! The Last Four Standing: Six Years of Cocodona 250 Four runners. Six straight years. Roughly 6,000 miles of one of the hardest point-to-point ultras in the country. In this episode, Kevin Goldberg sits down with Andy Glaze, Jeff Garmire, Aaron Fleisher, and Jose Sosa — the only four athletes to finish every single Cocodona 250 since its 2021 debut. What started as a one-off pandemic-era adventure (Aaron even emailed the race directors to say he'd never be back) somehow became an annual ritual none of them saw coming. The guys talk through how the race hooked them, why it never actually gets easier, and the community that keeps pulling them back to the start line each May. There's also a healthy dose of competition and chaos: back-of-the-napkin math on how many hours they've each logged on course (the guesses are scarily accurate), predictions for when the streak finally breaks and who'll be the last one standing, theories on how each man's run will eventually end — from injury to flight delays to one very specific basketball-related exit — and the origin of Andy's parallel 100-mile-week streak that may be even harder to kill than the Cocodona one. Equal parts tribute, roast, and group therapy for people who can't stop signing up. Here's to year seven.
June 10 · 1 hr 24 min
2026 Tahoe 200 Deep Dive! Course Preview, Tips & Strategies
Become a Distance to Empty subscriber!: https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors! ⁠⁠https://janji.com/pages/distance-to-empty⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you! Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Code IRON at www.goodranchers.com and mention us in the post purchase survey! The Tahoe 200 Goes All the Way Around Again — 2026 Course Preview with Jameson Collins For the first time since 2019, the Tahoe 200 is a true full loop—no out-and-back, no fire detour, just 200+ miles circumnavigating Lake Tahoe. Kevin and Peter sit down with Jameson Collins, Destination Trail's HQ manager and course marking director, who just spent a week hanging dragons and ribbons across the entire course. Fresh off the trail, Jameson walks us through the loop aid station by aid station, with current-as-of-race-week intel on snow, water, blowdown, and everything in between. This year's race is a tale of two courses: a wild, remote, technical first ~100 miles through the Caldor Fire scar and forgotten corners of the El Dorado National Forest, then a return to the smooth, groomed "fairytale" Tahoe Rim Trail experience from Barker Pass home. Jameson breaks down where you'll be post-holing through soft snow (and why microspikes won't save you), which sections feel like bushwhacking dragon-to-dragon, where the jeeps will be crawling up Cadillac Hill, and why Wrights-to-Loon is the single hardest leg out there. Plus: gear and spike strategy, dressing for the brush and burn scars, the three sleep stations (Wrights Lake, Barker Pass, Brockway Summit), where the course dries out and water gets scarce, the brutal final climb under the Heavenly ski lifts, and Jameson's best advice for anyone tempted to quit with hours of cushion still in the bank. Race starts Friday, June 12 at 9 AM. 105-hour cutoff. Heavenly Stagecoach Lodge start/finish. Pacers allowed from Loon Lake (mile 87.6). Guest: Jameson Collins — Destination Trail HQ manager, course marking director, and founder of Huda Trail.
June 4 · 1 hr 16 min
The Fear Can Hang Out: Lessons from a First 250 w/ Laura Rambikur
Become a Distance to Empty subscriber!: https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors! ⁠⁠https://janji.com/pages/distance-to-empty⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you! Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Code IRON at www.goodranchers.com and mention us in the post purchase survey! Laura Rambikur didn't grow up an athlete. Told in middle school she wasn't good at sports, she chose the arts, became a musician, and didn't find running until her mid-thirties. This year, she crossed the finish line at Heritage Square as a Cocodona 250 finisher. 250 miles from Black Canyon City to Flagstaff, completed in 123 hours. In this episode, Laura sits down with Kevin and Peter (Kevin also happens to be her coach) to unpack the journey from a four-year dream sparked on a couch watching the livestream to the start line of her first 200-plus-mile race. With a light ultra resume and a hard DNF at High Lonesome behind her, she put together a training block Kevin calls one of the most impressive he's ever seen. But this conversation goes deeper than splits and cutoffs. As a clinical mental health therapist who has spent years working with trauma survivors, Laura brings a rare lens to suffering, resilience, and what it means to keep moving forward when you can no longer trust your own mind. We talk about going off course near Goldwater Lakes, the respiratory struggles that nearly ended her race on the Coconino Plateau, the brutality of the Mount Eldon descent at 5 a.m. on day six, and the family crew — her mom and sister — who carried her to the finish. Along the way: why fear can be an asset instead of something to burn down, the power of accompaniment, cinnamon roll waffles at Jerome, and the case for trekking poles when you can't stop throwing up. Oh, and Laura opens the episode with an AI roast that gets genuinely spicy. You've been warned. Have you found your distance to empty?
May 29 · 1 hr 4 min
Trish Corbett: MBA Champion, Corner Threes and Broken Fingers at Cocodona 250
Become a Distance to Empty subscriber!: https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors! ⁠⁠https://janji.com/pages/distance-to-empty⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you! Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Code IRON at www.goodranchers.com and mention us in the post purchase survey! Trish Corbett came to Cocodona 250 in 2026 with unfinished business. After a DNF in 2022 the Flagstaff-based nurse spent four years watching the race from the sidelines before finally lining up again for redemption. She got more than she bargained for. At mile 109, descending Mingus Mountain in the dead of night, Trish fell and dislocated multiple fingers on her left hand — also sustaining an avulsion fracture where bone separated from the joint. Rather than quit, she improvised a splint from a race flag, found KT tape from fellow runners, hiked 15 miles to Jerome, and talked an ER doctor into reducing the dislocations without systemic pain meds so she could return to the course. Four hours later, she was back running — without poles, with a hand swollen to twice its size, still ahead of her husband's finishing time. Before all that chaos unfolded, Trish had already made her mark at the Mingus Basketball Association — Kevin and Peter's mid-race shooting contest — draining two corner threes at 107 miles in, in the dark, wearing her pack, to win the women's division and take home a prize pack including a John G gift card, Ultraspire gear, Bollé sunglasses, and Mount to Coast shoes. In this conversation, Trish talks about nursing as the reason she started running, the emotional weight of returning to a race after a DNF, how her medical background helped her triage herself mid-race, what it felt like to want to quit on the Hangover Trail, why a missing slice of cheese nearly broke her, and what David Goggins' "never volunteer to quit" mantra meant to her in the hardest moments. Plus: her coach Kaleb Stevens' reaction, her husband's very colorful response to a photo of her hand, and what that finish line buckle means now compared to what it would have meant on a clean run.
May 22 · 1 hr 24 min
Zach Hauer on Chasing the Podium at Cocodona 250, and What 200s Teach You That Nothing Else Can
Become a Distance to Empty subscriber!: https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors! ⁠https://janji.com/pages/distance-to-empty⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you! Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Code IRON at www.goodranchers.com and mention us in the post purchase survey! Zach Hauer joins Kevin Goldberg fresh off his first-ever 200+ mile race — the Cocodona 250 — where he finished in 69 hours after spending much of the race in podium contention. A former University of Arizona track and cross country runner turned competitive ultrarunner, Zach brings a unique perspective to the 250-mile distance, drawing on experience from UTMB's CCC and golden ticket races that set him apart from much of the field. In this episode, Zach breaks down the full arc of his race: the unexpected mental fog of running in a lead pack, a costly navigation blunder through the Fain Ranch section, a "hero dose" creatine experiment that left him feeling like he was having an out-of-body experience, and a deeply emotional low on the climb to Schnebly Hill that had him questioning everything — followed by one of his strongest sections of the race. He also reflects on sleep strategy (or lack thereof), the difference between giving up and quitting, and what it means to voluntarily choose suffering in a sport where so many face it without a choice. We also get his inside look at how Cody Poskin, Joe McConaughy, and Courtney Dauwalter race these things, a quick breakdown of his training approach and what he'd do differently, and why he'd come back and do it all over again. Plus: basketball at mile 107, OpenFuel's mission to reduce plastic waste in the sport, and the manifesting of future MBA podiums.
May 20 · 47 min
Missy Hendricks | Being Seen, Running the Land & the Back of the Pack
Become a Distance to Empty subscriber!: https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors! https://janji.com/pages/distance-to-empty⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you! Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Code IRON at www.goodranchers.com and mention us in the post purchase survey! Missy Hendricks is one of the athletes featured in The Cutoff, the new film by Dylan Harris presented by Aravaipa Running — and from the moment a film crew came running toward her on the trail outside Prescott, she wasn't sure she wanted to be found. In this special mini-series episode, Missy opens up about what it meant to be seen — not just as a runner, but as a Mescalero Apache woman, a mother, a wife, and a full-time worker chasing something most people in her life never saw coming. She talks about going from her first half marathon to the starting line of the Cocodona 250, the "ghost in her own home" reality of training while raising a family, and the moment on course when something clicked and she decided to let the world in. Missy also speaks candidly about what the back of the pack actually looks like — the flooded aid stations with no massage tables, the 30-minute sleep windows, the mental fight to keep moving when every part of you wants to stop — and why every finisher, regardless of place, deserves to be celebrated. This one hits different. Don't miss it.
May 3 · 27 min
Randi Zuckerberg is Flagstaff Bound at the 2026 Cocodona 250
FLAGSTAFF BOUND is BACK for 2026! Become a Distance to Empty subscriber!: https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Janji.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you! Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Code IRON at www.goodranchers.com and mention us in the post purchase survey! Last year she finished Cocodona 250 in the worst weather the race has seen — two straight days of torrential rain, snow and hail on top of both the Bradshaws and Mingus, shin splints through the final miles into Flagstaff. She dragged herself to that finish line and a week later when registration opened, she signed up again immediately. She's back. Her crew is back. Her dad's RV is back. And this year she's showing up as an athlete rather than a mom with something to prove. In this episode of Flagstaff Bound, Kevin and Peter sit down with Randi Zuckerberg — returning Cocodona finisher, Tony Award winner, tech executive, author, and mom of three — for a conversation about what crossing that finish line actually changed. Randi talks about watching her sons transform in her wake — one training for Triathlon Nationals, the other running 50-mile weeks at age 11 — and what it means to show up this year with a real training block, a Boston Marathon, a training camp on the Cocodona course, and a custom Mount to Coast shoe with a fire horse painted on it. She also has a strong opinion about Nerds clusters and their potential arsenic content. She's eating them anyway. Her chalkboard message at Mingus is "everything is temporary." The bad moments and the good ones. She'll be riding whatever wave she's on. Cocodona 250 kicks off Monday, May 4th at 5 AM Pacific. Follow the action live on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel.
May 2 · 19 min
Megan Eckert is Flagstaff Bound at the 2026 Cocodona 250
FLAGSTAFF BOUND is BACK for 2026! Become a Distance to Empty subscriber!: https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Janji.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you! Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Code IRON at www.goodranchers.com and mention us in the post purchase survey! She ran 526 miles in six days on a 443-meter indoor track. She has exceeded 200 miles in a single effort multiple times in backyard ultras and looped formats. She fast-packed the majority of the Cocodona 250 course to prepare. She has never run a traditional point-to-point 200-mile race. That ends in May. In this episode of Flagstaff Bound, Kevin and Peter sit down with Megan Eckert — Six Days in the Dome champion, backyard ultra specialist, high school track and cross-country coach, and first-time traditional 200-miler — for a conversation about what it actually means to merge two loves: trail running and going very, very far. Megan talks about what she learned fast-packing the course, how she plans to gamify a race that doesn't loop back around every four miles, and why sleep strategy at Cocodona is a whole different animal than anything she's done before. She's not sleeping in a comfortable indoor aid station. She's bringing earplugs, an eye mask, and her backyard instincts. Her students now assume that when she misses school, she's out there racing. They're not wrong. They want to hear all of it when she gets back. Her chalkboard message at Mingus is "don't miss those shots." She meant it about the MBA. She also meant it about the race. Cocodona 250 kicks off Monday, May 4th at 5 AM Pacific. Follow the action live on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel.
May 1 · 23 min
Courtney Dauwalter is Flagstaff Bound at the 2026 Cocodona 250
FLAGSTAFF BOUND is BACK for 2026! Become a Distance to Empty subscriber!: https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Janji.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you! Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Code IRON at www.goodranchers.com and mention us in the post purchase survey! EPISODE DESCRIPTION She won Moab 240 and Tahoe 200. She won Western States, Hardrock, and UTMB — sometimes back to back to back in the same summer. She came to Cocodona 250 last year, led the entire field through 108 miles, and stopped at Mingus Mountain. She ran a 2:38 road marathon in the fall because she wanted to feel like a beginner at something. She is back. In this episode of Flagstaff Bound 2026, Kevin and Peter sit down with Courtney Dauwalter for a conversation about what this distance actually requires from her — patience, adventure, and progress that looks different depending on which part of the roller coaster you're on. Courtney talks about what a full reset after UTMB actually looked like, why rediscovering the road marathon reignited something she didn't know needed reigniting, and how she thinks about racing something this long when every decision you make on day one compounds across day two, night two, and day three. She also asked if there were NBA jerseys at the Mingus Basketball Association. There are. She is extremely ready. Her chalkboard message at Mingus Mountain is a letter to herself: dear Courtney, this is not your finish line. Love Courtney. Her prediction for Cocodona 2026 is that at least 1,500 pickles will be consumed across all race distances. She needs Jamil and the team to count. Cocodona 250 kicks off Monday, May 4th at 5 AM Pacific. Follow the action live on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel.
April 30 · 41 min
Sally McRae is Flagstaff Bound at the 2026 Cocodona 250
FLAGSTAFF BOUND is BACK for 2026! Become a Distance to Empty subscriber!: https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Janji.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you! Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Code IRON at www.goodranchers.com and mention us in the post purchase survey! She won Badwater 135 in 2021. In 2023 she ran four 200-plus mile races in five months — Cocodona 250 first, then Tahoe, then Bigfoot two weeks after that, then won Moab 240 to cap the Grand Slam — despite getting blisters within the first few miles of Cocodona and spending much of that year in a level of physical discomfort she describes as the worst of her life. She's coming back for Cocodona in 2026 after a significant knee injury that had doctors telling her she was done with 200s. She found a surgeon who paused and said "but." In this episode of Flagstaff Bound, Kevin and Peter sit down with Sally McRae — Yellow Runner, Badwater champion, Grand Slam finisher, author of Choose Strong, and the only guest in this series who described Cocodona 250 as "an eating contest from Phoenix to Flagstaff." Sally talks about what that 2023 Grand Slam actually felt like from the inside, why she's leaning into gratitude and away from pride heading into this year's race, and the thing she tells athletes who are in their darkest moments out there — think about the story you want to tell. Her daughter is a runner at NAU. Sally is hoping she runs her into the finish line. Cocodona 250 kicks off Monday, May 4th at 5 AM Pacific. Follow the action live on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel.
April 29 · 24 min
Heather Jackson is Flagstaff Bound at the 2026 Cocodona 250
FLAGSTAFF BOUND is BACK for 2026! Become a Distance to Empty subscriber!: https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Janji.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you! Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Code IRON at www.goodranchers.com and mention us in the post purchase survey! EPISODE DESCRIPTION She was almost on the U.S. Olympic ice hockey team. She got a scholarship to Princeton. She taught world history. Then she became a professional triathlete, won six Ironman triathlons, set the all-time fastest Ironman by an American woman, finished third at Kona, and retired from triathlon in 2022. Since then she has won Western States golden ticket races, finished seventh at Western States, taken fifth at CCC, and set the course record at the Unbound XL — a 350-mile gravel race. This is her first 200-mile trail race. In this episode of Flagstaff Bound, Kevin and Peter sit down with Heather Jackson — six-time Ironman champion, professional ultrarunner, and someone who by her own admission goes out way too hard and blows up, and is hoping to not do that at Cocodona. Heather talks about what the transition from triathlon to trail actually looks like from the inside, how her husband manages her sponsors, films her YouTube channel, and sags her training runs on his mountain bike, and why she's genuinely terrified of this race in the best possible way. She's been watching the Cocodona live stream for five years and can't believe she gets to be on it. Her five words are "holy shit I am scared." Her chalkboard message at Mingus is for her dogs Stevie and Frankie. If they're waiting for her, she'll get there faster. Cocodona 250 kicks off Monday, May 4th at 5 AM Pacific. Follow the action live on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel.
April 29 · 1 hr 3 min
2026 Cocodona 250 Deep Dive! Course Preview, Tips & Strategies
FLAGSTAFF BOUND is BACK for 2026! Become a Distance to Empty subscriber!: https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Janji.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you! Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Code IRON at www.goodranchers.com and mention us in the post purchase survey! Episode Title: Cocodona 250 Course Preview 2026 Kevin and Peter are back with their most-downloaded episode of the year — the Cocodona 250 Course Preview. With a combined ~5 finishes between them, the guys break down everything you need to know before toeing the line in Black Canyon City this May. They cover all the meaningful 2026 course changes first: the new Watson Lake Aid Station (bring $5 cash for parking), the relocated Fain Ranch at Living Waters Church, the loss of crew access at Deer Pass (hello, 50K crew-less stretch), and the big pacer rule flip — you can now bring a pacer through Walnut Canyon, but the final 19 miles over Elden are solo. No pacers. Just you and the mountain. Then it's a section-by-section breakdown of all 253 miles: Start to Crown King — 37 miles, 11K+ feet of gain, and one critical right turn you cannot miss Crown King to Whiskey Row — navigating the Bradshaws overnight through Camp Kippa and the Yankee Doodle Trail Whiskey Row to Mingus Mountain — crossing Prescott Valley, the Granite Dells, the Fain Ranch gopher field, and the big Mingus climb Mingus to Sedona — the most mentally draining stretch of the race, a junkyard descent out of Jerome, and a Verde River crossing The Hangover Trail — slick rock, big exposure, 40-minute miles, and somehow the most beautiful part of the course Schnebly Hill to Walnut Canyon — 51 miles deep in the race on the Coconino Plateau, Muns Park, Kelly Canyon, and the legendary Fort Tuthill Walnut Canyon to the Finish — the final solo push up Elden via the Newhart Trail and down the steep descent into Heritage Square The guys also share details on the Distance to Empty ShakeOut Run (Sunday May 3rd, 2 PM at Deep Canyon Ranch), the Mingus Basketball Association three-shot challenge (live leaderboard, prizes from Mount to Coast, John G, and Ultraspire), and how to score some DTE swag out on course. Whether you're racing, crewing, pacing, or just dreaming — this is the episode to prep with.
April 28 · 29 min
Mike McKnight is Flagstaff Bound at the 2026 Cocodona 250
FLAGSTAFF BOUND is BACK for 2026! Become a Distance to Empty subscriber!: https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod Code IRON at www.goodranchers.com and mention us in the post purchase survey! Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors! Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Janji.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you! EPISODE DESCRIPTION In 2023 he showed up to Whiskey Row ten hours behind the leaders, told his crew he was still going to win and set the course record, and then did exactly that. In 2025 he herniated a disc and watched Kilian Korth take his Triple Crown records from his couch. He described it as a whirlwind of emotions. He went to therapy, read about the mind-body connection, and concluded his back hurt because he was trying too hard to win. He came back and immediately won the Arizona Monster 300 and set the course record. In this episode of Flagstaff Bound, Kevin and Peter sit down with Mike McKnight — the Dark McKnight, the King of 200s, the man who is very uncomfortable being called the King of 200s — for one of the most honest conversations in the series. Mike talks about why Cocodona is the one race he hasn't figured out despite winning it, how his mantra of "decide, don't hope" played out in real time at the Arizona Monster when second place closed a three-mile gap on him in the Tucson heat, and why he's working to get to the start line with genuine confidence rather than just telling himself he has it. His chalkboard message at Mingus is "I want it that way." He is a Backstreet Boys fan. He is not embarrassed about this. Cocodona 250 kicks off Monday, May 4th at 5 AM Pacific. Follow the action live on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel.
April 27 · 26 min
Fra Balbi is Flagstaff Bound at the 2026 Cocodona 250
FLAGSTAFF BOUND is BACK for 2026! Become a Distance to Empty subscriber!: https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod Code IRON at www.goodranchers.com and mention us in the post purchase survey! Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors! Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Janji.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you! EPISODE DESCRIPTION They grew up in Italy, moved to New York City at 24, and now live in Prescott, Arizona — which means they will be one of the rare Cocodona 250 runners who passes through their own hometown during the race. They spent most of their life as a swimmer and volleyball player who genuinely hated running. Two and a half years ago, something clicked. In this episode of Flagstaff Bound, Kevin and Peter sit down with Fra Balbi; runner, community builder, and founder of TNBThrive, for one of the most meaningful conversations in the series. Fra talks about what it felt like to show up to Flagstaff Crest last year as the only nonbinary runner registered across all distances, why they ran with a sign that said "trans athletes belong everywhere," and what the finish line moment was that made them realize wanting it wasn't enough. They had to build something. That something is TNBThrive; an organization working to make organized sport more accessible to trans and nonbinary people, starting with running. Fra talks about what they've learned from Trail Sisters and Native Women Running as models, what race directors can do right now to make races more welcoming, and why organized sport is one of the most powerful mental health interventions available to a community that is currently under sustained attack. Cocodona 250 kicks off Monday, May 4th at 5 AM Pacific. Follow the action live on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel.
April 26 · 30 min
Holly Stables is Flagstaff Bound at the 2026 Cocodona 250
FLAGSTAFF BOUND is BACK for 2026! Become a Distance to Empty subscriber!: https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod Code IRON at www.goodranchers.com and mention us in the post purchase survey! Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors! Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Janji.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you! She represented Great Britain in the marathon at the European Athletics Championships and the Commonwealth Games, then decided that wasn't hard enough. She ran UTMB, TDS, Comrades, and the Annapurna Circuit solo. Last year she ran 300 miles from Los Angeles to Las Vegas at The Speed Project and finished second among all solo women — partly through a heat wave, partly running out of water in the desert, partly navigating on her own with an RV that couldn't go off-road. Now she's coming to Arizona for her first Cocodona 250. In this episode of Flagstaff Bound, Kevin and Peter sit down with Holly Stables, elite marathoner turned ultrarunner, co-founder of RushByNature, and co-host of the Running Won't Save You podcast, for a conversation about what happens when you can't go faster and start going further instead. Holly talks about the arc from running the same marathon time over and over again to eventually just wanting to do something completely different, what she learned navigating 300 miles of the American Southwest with almost no support, and what excites and terrifies her about a race that's actually organized, has aid stations, and goes somewhere on a marked course. She's contractually obligated to play in the Mingus Basketball Association. It's in her sponsorship agreement. She knows this. Cocodona 250 kicks off Monday, May 4th at 5 AM Pacific. Follow the action live on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel.
April 26 · 36 min
Allison Powell is Flagstaff Bound at the 2026 Cocodona 250
FLAGSTAFF BOUND is BACK for 2026! Become a Distance to Empty subscriber!: https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod Code IRON at www.goodranchers.com and mention us in the post purchase survey! Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors! Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Janji.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you! Last year she organized her entire race plan by fictional universe. It was Galaxy Quest to start, Dune through the desert, Game of Thrones when it was time to race. It ended up being pure Mad Max the whole way through. She's back. This year the theme is Cocodona the Musical. In this episode of Flagstaff Bound, Kevin sits down solo with Allison Powell — returning ultrarunner, storyteller, coach, Montana community builder, and Jeff Garmire's fiancée — for one of the most fun conversations in the series. Allison talks about what last year actually looked like out there when the weather came in and survival mode took over, why she's ditching the multi-universe structure this year in favor of one overarching theme of whimsy, and what it means to race the same 250-mile race as your partner while keeping everything completely separate — different crews, different bubbles, different tents the night before. She also talks about the Montana chapter of Women in Ultrarunning, why she's running for Runners for Public Lands this year, and what getting more women to the start line of races like Cocodona actually requires. Her chalkboard message at Mingus is about Air Bud. She has opposable thumbs. She can do this. Cocodona 250 kicks off Monday, May 4th at 5 AM Pacific. Follow the action live on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel.
April 24 · 28 min
⁠Manuela Vilaseca⁠ is Flagstaff Bound at the 2026 Cocodona 250
FLAGSTAFF BOUND is BACK for 2026! Become a Distance to Empty subscriber!: https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod Code IRON at www.goodranchers.com and mention us in the post purchase survey! Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors! Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Janji.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you! She came to Cocodona 2024 burnt out on running, couldn't run in the two months leading up to the race, cross-trained her way to the start line, showed up with zero expectations, and finished on the podium. Then she signed up for the entire Triple Crown — Tahoe, Bigfoot, and Moab — and broke the women's record by 29 hours. She is back for Cocodona 2026, and for the first time she gets to actually arrive before the race starts. In this episode of Flagstaff Bound, Kevin and Peter sit down with Manuela Vilaseca — yoga teacher, Brazilian, Barcelona-based, and somehow one of the most decorated 200-mile runners in the world despite training on 20-kilometer runs and flying across three time zones to get to her races. Manu talks about what changed in her relationship with running — from obligation to opportunity — and what it feels like to come back to a race knowing you did it right the first time and still having plenty left to find. She talks about the sleep experiments she ran throughout the Triple Crown, what she's correcting this year, and why arriving a full week early feels like a genuine luxury. She also has absolutely no confidence in her basketball game. Cocodona 250 kicks off Monday, May 4th at 5 AM Pacific. Follow the action live on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel.

Showing 21–38 of 38 episodes