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Conversations about Consultation

Emma Ní Chinnéide, Zahra Ahmed and Bethanie Atinuke Sonola

Welcome to our podcast, Conversations about Consultation. This is a series of digital audio files, made with a wide range of guests who have been generous enough to share their thinking on the topic of consultation in education. Our aim is to provide thought-provoking and engaging content that you can access at times and in places convenient to you, growing out of our shared interest in consultation.

Emma teaches a module on consultation as part of the doctoral training in Child, Community, and Educational Psychology at the Tavistock and Portman NHS Foundation Trust.

Jessica, Emily, Bethanie, and Zahra are either current or former doctoral students from the Tavistock and Portman Educational Psychology training. Our current co-hosts, Bethanie and Zahra, work in or are on placement in local authority settings, where they use consultation in their practice.

Consultation has any number of different definitions and models. Given our training and background, we are especially interested in consultation as it is used in schools and community settings. We see consultation as a particular type of professional helping relationship, one that holds central the idea that it is the relationship between the consultant and those with whom they work that makes the difference. However, one aim of Conversations about Consultation is to speak with guests who perhaps use different lenses, modalities and approaches and who offer something unique and distinctive that can complement or contrast with our own. It may be a current trainee on a different programme whose research interests include consultation, or an early career practitioner reflecting on consultative working in schools. We speak with experienced practitioners from other disciplines who bring their expertise in working with children young people and their families; as well as psychologists who have been working in the field of consultation research and practice for many years. We hope you will find a conversation to listen to that engages your interest, offers a different perspective or even just provokes a new question or idea that leads to further conversations of your own.

You can follow us on BlueSky to join in the conversation at @CACpodcast.bsky.social

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20 episodes
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S4 · E7
June 29 · 1 hr 2 min
Matching in Consultation Pairs - Dr Courtenay Barrett
Dr Courtenay Barrett is an associate professor in the school psychology program at Michigan State University, a licensed psychologist, and a nationally certified school psychologist. She received a Fulbright Scholar Award in 2023 to conduct research at the University College Cork, Ireland. She is an Associate Editor at School Psychology, a former Associate Editor for the Journal of Educational and Psychological Consultation, and a member of the Editorial Boards for the Journal of School Psychology and School Psychology Review. She currently has a gubernatorial appointment to the Michigan Board of Psychology. Her research interests are focused on implementation science, specifically consultation, coaching, and collaboration as a means to support implementation, economic evaluations of school-based programs and practices, and data-based decision-making to qualify students for special education services and the relation between these services and student outcomes. She has published over 50 peer-reviewed journal articles and several book chapters on these topics. Note: this podcast episode was recorded prior to the publishing of the UK government's Schools White Paper Every Child Achieving and Thriving (2026) Related Articles & Books Clinkscales, A., Barrett, C. A., & Spear, S. E. (2024). The Role of Racial Match Between Students and Teachers in School-Based Consultation. School Psychology Review, 53(2), 123–136. https://doi-org.uniessexlib.idm.oclc.org/10.1080/2372966X.2022.2087477 Barrett, C. A., Burns, M. K., Maki, K. E., Clinkscales, A., Hajovsky, D. B., & Spear, S. E. (2021, November 4). Language Used in School Psychological Evaluation Reports as Predictors of SLD Identification Within a Response to Intervention Model. School Psychology. Advance online publication. http://dx.doi.org/10.1037/spq0000485 Amna A. Agha & Courtenay A. Barrett (19 Feb 2024): Process Logs: A Tool to Promote Self-Reflection During Consultation Supervision and Document Consultee-Centered Outcomes, Journal of Educational and Psychological Consultation, https://doi.org/10.1080/10474412.2024.2318749 Barrett, C. A., Newman, D. S., & Bagasrawala, L. (2026). Paradigm compatibility within school consultation: Offering insight into consultee resistance. Journal of school psychology, 115, 101523. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jsp.2025.101523
S4 · E6
June 3 · 50 min
Cultural-historical activity perspectives in consultation - Dr Simangele Mayisela
Dr Simangele Mayisela, is a Senior Lecturer in the Department of Psychology at the University of the Witwatersrand (Wits) and a registered Educational Psychologist in practice. She was a three consecutive year(2014-2016) Next Generation Social Sciences in Africa Fellow and NRF- Innovation grant holder for her Doctoral research. Among the several research awards she has received, is the Female Academic Leaders Fellow (FALF) at Wits University (2021-2022). Her primary research interest is understanding the intersection between human development and intrapsychological functions from an African perspective, psychodynamic and cultural-historical activity perspective - a multi-disciplinary paradigm. We loved speaking with Simangele about Educational Psychology practice in South Africa, her research and her perspectives on consultation.
S4 · E5
May 13 · 48 min
System-wide Consultation - Shannon Steven
Shannon Steven is a school psychologist who has worked in education for over 18 years and is a keen advocate for the profession. Shannon loves to learn and is passionate about the promotion of the wellbeing, and the prevention of illbeing of young people in schools and in the wider community. She has experience working across the Department of Education, Catholic Education and Independent school systems, in primary, secondary, composite and boarding contexts. Shannon is a registered teacher, has taught ATAR and has completed her Master of Psychology (Counselling) at Curtin University, and the Masters of Applied Positive Psychology and Coaching Psychology (MAPPCP) at the University of East London. Shannon is a Past President of the School Psychologists Association of Western Australia (SPAWA) and the Australian Psychologists and Counsellors in Schools Association (APACS) and continues to be on the APACS committee. Shannon is currently a lead psychologist at Catholic Education WA and works part time in private practice. In todays episode we reflect on transitioning to a system-wide consultation service delivery model and what she and her colleagues are learning along the way.
S4 · E4
April 17 · 48 min
The Tree of Change Consultation Framework - Dr LeMarra Williamson
Dr LeMarra Williamson is a Senior Practitioner Educational Psychologist and Academic Tutor at the University of East Anglia and the University of East London, where she contributes to the training and supervision of doctoral students on the Educational Psychology Doctorate (EdPsyD) programme. Her career combines professional practice, teaching, and research, with a strong emphasis on equality, diversity, and inclusion, and on ensuring educational psychology works in ways that empower children, families, and schools in diverse communities. Her research and practice are underpinned by a commitment to strength-based and collaborative approaches. She has worked extensively with schools, families, and young people to move beyond deficit narratives and instead identify, amplify, and build upon existing strengths and resources. A central contribution to the field has been her creation of the Tree of Change consultation framework, a model of practice designed to support more inclusive and positive educational psychology consultations. The Tree of Change shifts focus away from “what is wrong” towards “what is working,” by exploring existing resources and strengths (the roots), the collaborative process of consultation and shared understanding (the trunk), and the strategies, actions, and positive outcomes that emerge (the branches and leaves). Research into this framework has shown that it not only leads to more balanced and strength-focused action plans but also amplifies the voices of pupils, families, and teachers, particularly in communities where traditional models may otherwise have been deficit-based. Dr Williamson’s research has been published in peer-reviewed journals, including her 2022 article in Educational and Child Psychology, and she continues to supervise and support trainee educational psychologists conducting research in areas such as SEND, inclusion, and youth experiences in educational and legal contexts. Alongside her academic role, she remains committed to her applied work as a practitioner psychologist, using consultation, assessment, and intervention to support children’s learning and wellbeing. Through her teaching, writing, and professional practice, Dr Williamson has made a distinctive contribution to the development of strength-based, inclusive educational psychology, with the Tree of Change providing a framework that bridges research, theory, and practice. Faculty profile: https://research-portal.uea.ac.uk/en/persons/lemarra-williamson/
S4 · E3
March 23 · 1 hr 24 min
Learning from experience - Dr Sebastian Kraemer
We are honoured to have with us Dr Sebastian Kraemer, a distinguished clinician, writer and honorary consultant at the Tavistock & Portman NHS Trust. Over the past half century, Sebastian has shared his reflections and learning with others, drawing deeply on his experiences with colleagues, patients, and their families. After a first degree in philosophy, Dr Kraemer studied medicine, trained in paediatrics and then in psychiatry, completing his child and adolescent training at the Tavistock Clinic. He was on the clinic staff as a trainer and consultant psychiatrist from 1980 to 2003, at the same time as combining his paediatric training with systemic therapy as a consultant psychiatrist in the Whittington hospital paediatric department. Dr Kraemer has also been facilitating staff groups since the late 1970s and this is now his main work, along with a membership of a regular family therapy reflecting team, based in a north London GP surgery. During this episode we reflect together on on the process of consultation, the use of structure and learning from working with groups. To see a list of his publication please visit his website: www.sebastiankraemer.com
S4 · E2
Jan 19, 2025 · 1 hr 11 min
Feeling seen and bringing the 'storied self' into consultation - Dr Michael O'Loughlin
After teaching for seven years in Dublin, Michael O’Loughlin earned a Ph.D. in Psychology from Columbia University in New York. He later trained as a psychoanalyst at Adelphi University on Long Island and is now Professor in the College of Education and Health Sciences and the Derner School of Psychology at Adelphi. Michael teaches courses for teachers, school psychologists and clinical psychologists in training. Of the many books he has authored or edited, five of those books focus specifically on children and adolescents including Precarities of 21st century childhoods, released in 2023. He is editor of the book series, Critical Childhood & Youth Studies from Bloomsbury. Alongside directing the Adelphi Asylum Project, he has a private practice for psychotherapy and psychoanalysis with a strong emphasis on child, adolescent, and family work. Web: michaeloloughlinphd.com Faculty profile: https://www.adelphi.edu/faculty/profiles/profile.php?PID=0064
S4 · E1
Jan 19, 2025 · 13 min
An introduction to our new co-host - Bethanie Atinuke Sonola
We're meeting with Bethanie Atinuke Sonola, year 2 trainee Educational Psychologist completing her doctorate at the Tavistock and Portman NHS Foundation Trust. This short episode is to say a big welcome to Bethanie. We learn about Bethanie and her journey into training and share are some of the things that she hopes the podcast will explore during her time as a co-host.
S3 · E7
Apr 30, 2024 · 1 hr 6 min
A multicultural, gender, and sexually diverse affirming consultation framework - Dr Jeffrey Brown and Starr Greensky
We are so lucky to have with us Dr Jeffrey Brown and Starr Greensky. Jeff is currently an Assistant Professor at San Diego State University on the School Psychology Program and Starr is a student and School Psychology intern, working with Jeff. We speak with them about the development and application of a multicultural, gender, and sexually diverse affirming school‐based consultation framework. We also speak about contextual influences, colonialism and working with and in diverse communities. We were so privileged to speak with Starr and Jeff, they shared such interesting insights. We hope you enjoy listening to this episode!
S3 · E6
Mar 25, 2024 · 49 min
Children and young people’s participation in consultation - Dr Anwen J Marshall
Dr Anwen Marshall graduated from Bristol University in 2021 and currently works in Bristol City Council as an Educational Psychologist (EP), where she also holds the role of ‘person-centred champion’. Before training as an EP, Anwen worked as an Assistant EP in London for two years, based in a primary school. For her doctoral research, Anwen explored EP views on children and young people's participation in consultation meetings using both a online questionnaire and Appreciative Inquiry-informed interviews. Her research found a difference between beliefs and current practice, where trainee EPs/EPs generally believed in the benefits of participation, but practice often not mirroring this. Attitudes, facilitators and barriers were explored and Anwen very generously shared some of these in today's episode. She also shares elements from the model for participation she created as a product of her research, one which considers both system-wide and interpersonal practical strategies to advance children and young people's participation in consultation. We were really privileged to speak with Anwen about her research and hope this promotes reflection on our practice.
S3 · E5
Feb 25, 2024 · 1 hr 14 min
Reflecting on school culture and collaboration with school leaders and staff members - Laleh Laverick
We were so privileged to speak with Laleh Laverick in this episode about a range of important factors schools are dealing with today. Laleh speaks from a wealth of expertise and experience from her role as a Leadership and Management Adviser at Hackney Education, as well as the various roles she has held in inner city primary schools - including teacher, Special Educational Needs Co-ordiator and Head Teacher - for over 20 years. Laleh has served as an Executive Headteacher of 6 inner city schools., as well as a National Leader in Education linked to a Teaching School. She has supported ‘Women Leading in Education’ and ‘BAME leadership’ programmes, as well as being a school governor. Laleh has published articles in the Chartered College of Teaching’s journal and in journals on Early Years Education. Laleh believes that schools are at their best when their vision and ethos are clearly communicated by school leaders to all stakeholders and the culture of schools is one of high ambition for their communities. We loved speaking with Laleh about so much of her experiences working in various roles in UK schools. We reflect on the current factors influencing schools in London and Special Educational Needs departments generally, as well as the important role of understanding varying professional cultures when contracting and collaborating. We hope you enjoy listening to this episode and we look forward to reading some of your reflections about the topics discussed!
S3 · E4
Jan 26, 2024 · 1 hr 3 min
Instructional Consultation and Teacher Satisfaction - Dr Lauren Kaiser
Today we are so privileged to have with us Dr Lauren Kaiser, PhD, NCSP who is a Nationally Certified School Psychologist (NCSP). Currently, Dr. Kaiser is an Associate Professor and Program Coordinator for the School Psychology Graduate Program in the Psychology Department at Millersville University, Pennsylvania, in the United States. She received her Bachelors degree in Elementary Education, and earned her Masters and Doctoral degrees in School Psychology from the University of Maryland, College Park. Prior to her faculty assignment, Dr. Kaiser worked in a variety of professional capacities within urban, suburban, and rural schools across eight states in the U.S. She served as an elementary school teacher; school psychologist; and a trainer, consultant or coach of Instructional Consultation Teams and the Double Check and Bullying Classroom Check-Up programs. Her teaching and research interests are school consultation, teacher coaching, consultation training, and implementation science to help promote safe, supportive, equitable, and instructionally matched school environments for all students. Dr. Kaiser serves on the editorial board for the Journal of Educational and Psychological Consultation. She co-facilitates the NASP Consultee Centered Consultation Interest Group with Dr. Danny Newman. Dr. Kaiser and Dr. Newman were recently invited to co-author Best Practices in Instructional Consultation in the NASP Best Practices 7 series. They have worked together on several projects investigating the use and effects of deliberate practice training on the development of consultant communication micro-skills and consultation efficacy, which have resulted in peer-reviewed manuscripts and conference presentations. Dr. Kaiser’s initial consultation research focused upon the acceptability and effects of the Instructional Consultation and Instructional Consultation Teams model. Presently, Dr. Kaiser also serves as a consultant on large-scale training grants investigating the training and efficacy of the Double Check Classroom-Check-Up Model, a teacher coaching model which focuses upon enhancing culturally responsive teaching and student engagement. She has co-authored a chapter on innovations in coaching for the Handbook of School Mental Health: Issues in Clinical Child Psychology, as well as co-presented in invited national conference panels on the topic of school coaching to enhance equity in school discipline. We spoke with Lauren about her research into teacher satisfaction, seeking feedback, training novice consultants and ongoing learning and supervision of consultation. We hope you enjoy listening and reflecting on this episode!
S3 · E3
Dec 28, 2023 · 1 hr 16 min
Influences on Consultation: Attunement, Culture & Social Justice - Dr Esther Kuria and Dr Catherine Kelly
We are so lucky to have spoken with Dr Catherine Kelly and Dr Esther Kambe Kuria about their recent publication on social justice in Educational Psychology in Practice. Catherine is an Assistant Director for the Doctorate in Educational and Child Psychology at the University of Manchester and an Educational Psychologist for Bury Metropolitan Borough Council. Esther graduated from the Doctorate in Educational and Child Psychology at the University of Manchester and currently works in Cheshire East Local Authority. In this episode, we touch on a range of topics from attunement skills and group consultation to intersectionality and social justice principles in educational psychology services. We loved speaking with Esther and Catherine and have learnt so much from this conversation. We hope you enjoy listening! Article Reference: Esther K Kuria & Catherine Kelly (2023): Exploring social justice principles within an educational psychology service, Educational Psychology in Practice, DOI: 10.1080/02667363.2023.2226857
S3 · E2
Oct 23, 2023 · 1 hr 9 min
Implementation Science and Social Justice in Consultation - Dr Mel Collier-Meek
Dr. Collier-Meek is a licensed psychologist, Board Certified Behaviour Analyst and an Associate Professor of School Psychology at Teachers College, Columbia University. She also serves as an Associate Editor for School Psychology and provides reviews to several journals, for which she has been twice honoured as reviewer of the year. Mel’s research interests includes implementation science and she conducts applied school-based implementation research. She has specific expertise in intervention fidelity and teacher consultation. We loved speaking with Mel about her work on implementation science and reflecting on consultation using a DisCrit lens. We hope you enjoy this episode :)
S3 · E1
Sep 5, 2023 · 1 hr 10 min
Psychoanalytic Concepts in Consultation - Dr Dale Bartle and Dr Xavier Eloquin
In this episode we were honoured to speak with Dr Dale Bartle and Dr Xavier Eloquin, two of the three editors of the "Learning from the Unconscious" book which explores Psychoanalytic Approaches in Educational Psychology. We thoroughly enjoyed speaking with Dale and Xavier and we hope that this episode stimulates curiosity and reflections about consultation practice.
S2 · E9
Jan 13, 2023 · 58 min
Trainees creating cultural change - Dr Jason Apaloo-Shonibare, Dr Hannah Morgan & Dr Yasmin Francis
In this episode with speak with three of the 4 co-founders of TEPICC, the trainee-led initiative for cultural change in Educational Psychology and beyond. We were very lucky to speak with Jason, Hannah and Yasmin and shout out to Mickel Johnson, who was sadly unavailable to record the episode. Jason, Hannah and Yasmin all completed their doctoral training at the Tavistock and Portman NHS Foundation Trust. Jason and Yasmin currently work as Educational Psychologists in the London Borough of Hackney and Hannah works as an Educational Psychologist in Barnet Educational Psychology Service. We thoroughly enjoyed speaking with TEPICC about their formation, hopes for the group and reflections on practice and consultation. We hope you enjoy the episode!
S2 · E8
Oct 11, 2022 · 1 hr
A framework for developing consultation practice - Dr Louise Jones and Dr Cathy Atkinson
In this episode we speak with Cathy and Louise about their recent publication on a framework for developing consultation practice. Dr Cathy Atkinson is the curriculum director for the initial doctoral programme in educational psychology training at the University of Manchester and Dr Louise Jones is a Lead Specialist Educational and Child Psychologist at Lancashire County Council. Louise completed her thesis in consultation, including the application of Motivational Interviewing in consultation practice. We speak together about some of the elements of the National Association of School Psychology (NASP) framework which informed their approach and the integration of motivational interviewing techniques into practice. We hope you enjoy this episode as much as we enjoyed recording it!
S2 · E7
Sep 21, 2022 · 58 min
Relationship building and objectivity loss - Dr Cyril Pickering
Dr Cyril Pickering is a school psychologist who lives and works in Washington, DC. He received his Masters and PhD from the School Psychology program at the University of Maryland. Cyril was a contributor to the book "Becoming a School Consultant", which reflects on the experiences of consultation trainees as they learn the craft. His chapter, "Relationship Building and Objectivity Loss", documents lessons he learned while building effective collaboration with teachers. Cyril currently works on two school programs which serve youth and young adults who are incarcerated. We really enjoyed speaking with Cyril in this episode about the importance of relationship building, truly hearing teacher concerns and believing in the process of consultation. We hope you enjoy the episode!
S2 · E6
Sep 5, 2022 · 1 hr
Teaching, learning and supervision of consultation - Dr Daniel Newman
On this episode we were honoured to have with us Dr Daniel Newman, who is currently an Associate Professor on the School Psychology Program at the University of Cincinnati. Among several professional service roles, Dr. Newman is also the current editor of the Journal of Educational and Psychological Consultation. We touch on his research on teaching, training and professional supervision for consultation. We really enjoyed speaking with Danny and hope that you enjoy listening!
S2 · E5
Aug 2, 2022 · 51 min
Working towards culturally responsive EP practice - Dr Ellie Sakata
Dr Ellie Sakata graduated from the Educational Psychology doctorate from Tavistock and Portman NHS Foundation Trust in 2021 and is now working as a qualified Educational Psychologist at Hertfordshire County Council. In this episode, we explore Ellie's thesis which looks at Culturally Responsive Practice in EP work and the the self-reflective framework she created as part of her thesis. We talk about how we can incorporate and reflect on culturally responsive practice within our work with schools, parents and CYP.
S1 · E8
Mar 21, 2022 · 51 min
Motivational talk in consultation - Dr Grace Giles
Dr Grace Giles graduated from the ed psych doctorate at Nottingham University in 2020 and is now working as a qualified EP at Sandwell Educational and Child Psychology Service. Grace did her thesis looking at the intersection of Motivational Interviewing and Consultation and her thesis title is 'Using sequence analysis to explore the role of motivational talk in consultation' which we talk about in this episode alongside lots of other consultation things!

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