TechnologySociety & Culture

Computer Says Maybe

Alix Dunn

Technology is changing fast. And it's changing our world even faster. Host Alix Dunn interviews visionaries, researchers, and technologists working in the public interest to help you keep up. Step outside the hype and explore the possibilities, problems, and politics of technology. We publish weekly.

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#136
Friday · 54 min
Meet the Guy (Actually) Passing Tech Laws
You've likely heard of the National Sexual Assault Hotline. What you might not know is that it's operated by RAINN, an organization that has become one of the more unlikely players in tech policy. Since the pandemic, RAINN has seen a sharp rise in calls from young people. As more time is spent online, more opportunities for online sexual abuse follow. More like this: How Anduril Tried to Kill Democracy in Ohio (& How Farmers Fought Back) Stefan Turkheimer, RAINN’s VP of Public Policy, joins Alix to talk about how the crisis line led him to fight the ways tech platforms enable abuse at scale. Nearly 500,000 people contact RAINN's hotline every year, and a majority now call about tech-enabled assault: deepfakes, non-consensual intimate images, and coerced CSAM. RAINN didn't set out to become a tech accountability organization. But Stefan didn't just want to treat the symptoms. He wanted to change the root of the problem. From a Facebook algorithm connecting predators to kids, to a bill Elon Musk killed and Melania Trump revived, to the current fight over Grok generating nudes, Alix and Stefan map the wins, the losses, and the laws still standing in the way of real accountability. This conversation lands the same week Meta agreed to pay $18 billion to settle claims from dozens of states that it knowingly designed Instagram and Facebook to addict kids. While it comes with tangible changes, daily time limits, nighttime blocks, age checks, it's also a clear example of what Stefan and Alix discuss in this episode. This settlement, and the safety standards that come with it, were hammered out behind closed doors with no public weigh in. Why is that still how we decide what safety looks like for millions of kids? Content note: this episode discusses sexual assault, child sexual abuse, and non-consensual offenses. Further reading & resources: Kids law needed beyond Meta settlement, backers say — Roll Call The Take It Down Act is in full effect. What is it and how do you use it? — The 19th Grok chatbot allowed users to create digitally altered photos of minors in "minimal clothing" — CBS News To learn more, support, or get support about the National Sexual Assault Hotline, visit RAINN.org. Join The Maybe Collective to explore the politics of technology through fresh ideas that you won't hear anywhere else. Sign up for monthly insights, access to exclusive digital events, and real ways to get more involved on issues you care about. Computer Says Maybe is produced by Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout
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#135
August 21 · 51 min
How Anduril Tried to Kill Democracy in Ohio (& How Farmers Fought Back)
In Madison Township, Ohio, families have farmed the same land for generations. Then a commercial real estate company started buying up their neighbors' fields under the code name "Project Thor." They wouldn't find out until later that the buyer was Anduril, a venture-backed weapons company chasing a slice of the trillion-dollar Pentagon budget. Now, those farming families’ cattle and cornfields are being bulldozed to make way for a drone and cruise missile factory. More like this: The Colossus Crossroads: Fighting for the Future of Memphis w/ KeShaun Pearson In this episode, Taylor Barnes, a field reporter with Inkstick Media, takes us to Madison Township, where a fight over zoning has become a fight over who actually gets a say: communities that have a vote, or corporations that have a check. She walks us through the nearly billion dollars in tax breaks Anduril is set to receive, the lobbyist-drafted state law that stripped residents of their right to vote on the project, and what happens when the people with the least power over a decision are the ones who have to live with it. Further reading & resources: In Ohio, Who Really Gets a Say in Anduril Weapons Factories? — Taylor Barnes, Inkstick Media How an Anduril Lobbyist Quashed Local Voting Rights on Ohio — Taylor Barnes Emails Show Defense Tech Lobbyist Targets Local Voters — Inkstick Media This fight isn't over. The farmers leading it are up against Anduril's legal team, largely on their own. If you're a lawyer - especially with experience in zoning or local democratic rights - and want to help, get in touch. We'll make the introduction. Join The Maybe Collective to explore the politics of technology through fresh ideas that you won't hear anywhere else. Sign up for monthly insights, access to exclusive digital events, and real ways to get more involved on issues you care about. Computer Says Maybe is produced by Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout
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#134
July 31 · 2 min
A Sneak Peek into The Maybe Collective
We’re taking a short summer break and will be back on your feed in a couple of weeks. But we've got news before we go. Catch up on our most recent series: Computer Says Kill & REAL Resistance We're cooking up something new: a pilot membership community, launching this fall. Alix shares a little sneak peek at what we're building, and why we think its time to create a place where people can go deeper, find co-conspirators, and figure out what to do next. It's still early, and because we’re building this for you, we want to make sure it’s shaped by you. We want to hear from you: What would make a community like this worth showing up for? What kinds of conversations, connections, or activities would you want to be part of? What should we be thinking about as we build this? We’d love your thoughts in a quick survey here. You can also send us a note directly to pod@themaybe.org. Join The Maybe Collective to explore the politics of technology through fresh ideas that you won't hear anywhere else. Sign up for monthly insights, access to exclusive digital events, and real ways to get more involved on issues you care about. Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout
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#133
July 24 · 31 min
The Colossus Crossroads: Fighting for the Future of Memphis w/ KeShaun Pearson
In Memphis, companies don't come in to invest in the city. They come in to extract from its people and its land, no matter how high the human cost. That's exactly what xAI did when they decided to build one of the largest data centers in South Memphis, regardless of what it meant for the wellbeing of the people already living there. More like this: The Collective Fight for Our Humanity - REAL Resistance In this episode, KeShaun Pearson, Executive Director of Memphis Community Against Pollution (MCAP), connects this fight to a much longer history of disinvestment and oppression in South Memphis— one that existed long before xAI showed up and shaped what it actually means to become a "sacrifice zone." But KeShaun also knows that when you're fighting to take something down, you have to build something better in its place. He shares his vision for what co-governance could look like between communities, cities, and corporations, and what it would take for a company that says it's here to give something back to actually mean it. Further reading & resources: Livestream w/ Alix Dunn: The Battle for Memphis Elon Musk’s Memphis AI empire is the epicenter of the data center backlash — CNBC xAI built an illegal power plant to power its data center — Southern Environmental Law Center xAI in Memphis — What you need to know — Memphis Community Against Pollution Join The Maybe Collective to explore the politics of technology through fresh ideas that you won't hear anywhere else. Sign up for monthly insights, access to exclusive digital events, and real ways to get more involved on issues you care about. Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout
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#132
July 17 · 48 min
The Gig is Up: How Uber Ruined Wage Labor with Veena Dubal
In 2013, taxi drivers were beginning to notice something unusual: unmarked, black cars were cutting them off in taxi lines and picking up their passengers. Little did these drivers know that those black cars were the start of Uber — and it wasn’t just going to destroy the taxi industry, but wage labor as we knew it. More like this: REAL Resistance — Against Automated Governments In this episode, Alix Dunn sits down with Veena Dubal, one of the leading experts on gig labor and Professor of Law at the University of California, Irvine School of Law. Veena shares with us her firsthand account of the Uberization of everything from the beginning to now. She breaks down how this seemingly-innocuous ride sharing app would lead to algorithmic wage fixing around the world and the gamblification of workers’ lives. Further reading & resources: On Algorithmic Wage Discrimination — Veena Dubal AI Shouldn’t Be Setting Prices or Wages. States Need to Push Back. — Veena Dubal, 2026 How artificial intelligence uncouples hard work from fair wages through ‘surveillance pay’ practices—and how to fix it — Veena Dubal, Wilneida Negrón Algorithms of Exploitation — Human Rights Watch Join The Maybe Collective to explore the politics of technology through fresh ideas that you won't hear anywhere else. Sign up for monthly insights, access to exclusive digital events, and real ways to get more involved on issues you care about. Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout
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#131
July 10 · 50 min
The Collective Fight for Our Humanity - REAL Resistance
Anna Bacciarelli and Shazeda Ahmed know more than anyone that there are only a handful of tech companies asserting dominance around the world by talking in high-level abstractions about what the future looks like. At REAL ML, they want to change that. More like this: REAL Resistance: Who's Behind Big Brother? This is REAL Resistance, a collection of conversations produced in collaboration with Real ML, featuring the experts and advocates who make up Real ML’s global network. In this final conversation, Real ML executive director Anna Bacciarelli and researcher Shazeda Ahmed discuss what it takes to knit together a global community that is working to resist the material harms of big tech: the powers that be want to keep any discussion about the future of AI as vague as possible — which is why the experts that attend Real ML workshops take the time to get specific about the issues. Further reading & resources: More about Real ML Field-building and the epistemic culture of AI safety by Shazeda Ahmed et al A 2024 profile on Frantz Fanon — The Guardian Computer-vision research powers surveillance technology, by Abeba Birhane, Ria Kalluri, et al — Nature Magazine June 2025 **Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!** Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout
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#130
July 7 · 45 min
Who's Behind Big Brother? - REAL Resistance
Mariel Garcia-Montes and Crofton Black share their stories and investigations that uncover the backdoor deals that allow the surveillance industry to thrive under the guise of ‘security’. If you have nothing to hide, you won’t mind if we spy, right? More like this: REAL Resistance: The Global Fight Against Technocolonialism This is REAL Resistance, a collection of conversations produced in collaboration with Real ML, featuring the experts and advocates who make up Real ML’s global network. In this conversation, two guests from the network take us on a guided tour of the global underground surveillance tech market: Mexico is the world’s biggest importer of surveillance tech, and has a rich history of spying on citizens. Mariel Garcia-Montes briefs us on that history and what it means for Mexico now Surveillance technology represents a global industry that is mediated by exclusive conferences and backdoor deals; Crofton Black has spent years investigating this industry, the players, and the vulnerabilities they exploit Further reading & resources: More about Mariel’s work Surveillance Secrets — Lighthouse Reports, 2025 Ghost in the Network — Lighthouse Reports, 2023 More on the Mexican Student Movement of 1968 — Eugenia Allier-Montano, 2022 The Tierra Común Network, which Mariel invites any scholars and practitioners to join Join The Maybe Collective to explore the politics of technology through fresh ideas that you won't hear anywhere else. Sign up for monthly insights, access to exclusive digital events, and real ways to get more involved on issues you care about. Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout
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#129
July 3 · 49 min
The Global Fight Against Technocolonialism - REAL Resistance
Paola Ricaurte Quijano, Fernanda Rodrigues, Angela Chukunzira, and Kauna Love Malgwi make it clear that colonial powers have never gone away. The people and technology powering them have just changed, and one of them is AI… More Like This: REAL Resistance: Against Automated Governments This is REAL Resistance, a collection of conversations produced in collaboration with Real ML, featuring the experts and advocates who make up Real ML’s global network. In this conversation, four guests from the network discuss how the business of AI continues legacies of colonialism in Brazil, Mexico, and Kenya: AI companies are taking land in Querétaro for data center expansion, and they’re doing it without asking first. Paola Ricaurte Quijano explains that these are the mechanisms of dispossession at play — and it’s nothing new. The government in Brazil are adopting a risk-based approach for AI regulation; Fernanda Rodrigues demonstrates the problems with this approach, and how they disproportionately harm Black people. African data workers suffer the worst mental health harms when compared to other localities. Angela Chukunzira and Kauna Love Malgwi have worked to build a resistance movement for oppressed workers, and a framework for decolonising mental health. Further reading & resources: A Mental Health Intervention for Data Workers — Kauna Ibrahim Malgwi "It's not drought, it's plunder" Querétaro, the valley of data centers — By Paola Ricaurte Quijano and Teresa Roldán Soria, July 2025 Facial recognition surveillance in São Paulo could worsen racism — Al Jazeera, 2023 The Feminist AI Research Network More about the African Content Moderators Union Iris — The Institute for Research on Internet and Society Siasa Place — a youth organisation that helped tech workers who had been dismissed **Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!** Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout
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#128
June 30 · 53 min
Against Automated Governments - REAL Resistance
Maria Pilar Llorens, Divij Joshi, Gabriel Geiger, and Purity Mukami reveal how digitised welfare is not welfare — it’s just efficiency theatre. More like this: REAL Resistance: The AI Information Warp This is REAL Resistance, a collection of conversations produced in collaboration with Real ML, featuring the experts and advocates who make up Real ML’s global network. In this conversation, three guests from the network explore the rapid digitisation of public and judicial services around the world: Courts in LatAm countries are using ChatGPT to power through the case backlog. Maria Pilar Llorens explains that speed is not a virtue in judicial settings Kenya has adopted algorithmic proxy means-testing for healthcare — Gabriel Geiger & Purity Mukami reverse-engineered it to reveal its inequities Digitised public services kind of have a formula now: Divij Joshi’s work takes an aerial view of digitised payments, IDs, and consolidated data sets that govern the efficiency playbook Further reading & resources: Artificial Intelligence and Human Rights Courts — Maria Pilar Llorens Hiding Behind AI — Gabriel & Purity’s report on the new Kenyan healthcare system Suspicion Machines — Gabriel Geiger et al, Lighthouse Reports March 2023 How an algorithm denied food to thousands of poor in India’s Telangana — Divij Joshi, Tapasya, Kumar Sambhav, Al Jazeera January 2024 AI governance in India – law, policy and political economy — Divij Joshi, 2024 Use of Entity Resolution in India: Shining a light on how new forms of automation can deny people access to welfare — Amnesty International 2024 Join The Maybe Collective to explore the politics of technology through fresh ideas that you won't hear anywhere else. Sign up for monthly insights, access to exclusive digital events, and real ways to get more involved on issues you care about. Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout
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#127
June 26 · 49 min
The AI Information Warp - REAL Resistance
Klaudia Jaźwińska, Aliya Bhatia, and Yanick Kemayou come together to answer: What happens when a small collection of AI companies start colonising the truth? More like this: The Toxic Relationship Between AI & Journalism w/ Nic Dawes This is REAL Resistance, a collection of conversations produced in collaboration with Real ML, featuring the experts and advocates who make up Real ML’s global network. In this conversation, three guests from the network share all the ways in which AI is shaping our relationship with news, language, and learning: People are increasingly using AI for search and to get their news; but Klaudia Jaźwińska’s research finds that chatbots have a huge citation problem Many LLMs claim to be ‘multi-lingual’ — but also only tested in US English? Aliya Bhatia explains that porting outputs from English into all other languages in not gonna cut it Higher education in Africa is completely disconnected from local knowledge, which is why Yanick Kemayou founded Kabakoo: an alternative learning platform that leverages and preserves local knowledge with the use of technology, and without exploitation As Yancik says in this episode, “openness without governance is extraction with extra steps”. Further reading & resources: AI Search has a Citation Problem — Klaudia Jaźwińska & Aisvarya Chandrasekar Lost in Translation: Large Language Models in Non-English Content Analysis — Gabriel Nicholas, Aliya Bhatia More on Kabakoo Academies, founded by Yanick Kemayou The SPUR Coalition — a UK org seeking to create standards and infrastructure for AI companies and news publishers to do business The State and Fate of Linguistic Diversity and Inclusion in the NLP World — by Pratik Joshi et al, 2020 The #BenderRule: On Naming the Languages We Study and Why It Matters — Emily Bender, 2019 The silicon gaze: A typology of biases and inequality in LLMs through the lens of place — Francisco W. Kerche et al, 2026 Bamako AI Festival Join The Maybe Collective to explore the politics of technology through fresh ideas that you won't hear anywhere else. Sign up for monthly insights, access to exclusive digital events, and real ways to get more involved on issues you care about. Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout
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#126
June 19 · 51 min
Computer Says Kill: How To Say No w/ Matt Mahmoudi and Marwa Fatafta
How do we stand up against the human rights violations that exist in the gruesome relationship between the business of AI and war? More like this: Computer Says Kill: The AI Safety Circus w/ Heidy Khlaaf In our final installment of Computer Says Kill, Matt Mahmoudi returns, this time with Marwa Fatafta, to share the why and how of their recent joint statement on AI in warfare. The calls on AI companies to stop selling their products for use in military contexts, and for governments to cease buying them. The asks are simple while the execution is complex: what is the historical context of this fight and how long will it take to achieve some level of justice? Further reading & resources: Read the joint statement on Access Now and share across your networks Microsoft: it’s time to come clean about your ties to the Israeli military — Access Now A million calls an hour’: Israel relying on Microsoft cloud for expansive surveillance of Palestinians — The Guardian, 2025 AI for War: Big Tech Empowering Israel’s Crimes and Occupation — Al Shabaka, 2025 On Violence by Hanna Arendt Anthropic announces 'Claude Corps' to teach nonprofits to use AI more effectively — The Independent, June 2026 Artificial Genocidal Intelligence: how Israel is automating human rights abuses and war crimes — Access Now, 2024 Join The Maybe Collective to explore the politics of technology through fresh ideas that you won't hear anywhere else. Sign up for monthly insights, access to exclusive digital events, and real ways to get more involved on issues you care about. Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout
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#125
June 12 · 47 min
Computer Says Kill: The AI Safety Circus w/ Heidy Khlaaf
The AI industry loves to talk about safety, but their version of safety is putting us at risk. More like this: The Palestine Laboratory w/ Antony Loewenstein For our second to last series episode of Computer Says Kill, we’re joined by Heidy Khlaaf, a global expert in designing safe critical systems for high-risk infrastructures such as energy grids, nuclear power plants, and weaponry. Heidy outlines how the AI industry is working to redefine and shrink this essential, established field of expertise. By parading around sham “safety benchmarks”, this circus of an industry is marketing statistics that literally amount nothing at best, and proof that today’s LLMs aren’t safe at all, at worst. We explore the centuries of precedent and practice established in the safety field and examine how today’s AI safety “experts” are eroding this work to rush the incorporation of shoddy tech into the lucrative nooks and crannies of our militaries, economies, and physical infrastructure. Further reading & resources: Safety Co-Option and Compromised National Security: The Self-Fulfilling Prophecy of Weakened AI Risk Thresholds — Heidy Khlaaf & Sarah Myers West, 2025 Social Benefit versus Technological Risk: What is our society willing to pay for safety? — Chauncey Starr, 1969 Israel built an ‘AI factory’ for war. It unleashed it in Gaza. — WaPo December 2024 Join The Maybe Collective to explore the politics of technology through fresh ideas that you won't hear anywhere else. Sign up for monthly insights, access to exclusive digital events, and real ways to get more involved on issues you care about. Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout
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#124
June 5 · 49 min
Computer Says Kill: The Palestine Laboratory w/ Antony Loewenstein
Israel has a long history of making new technological weapons of war and exporting them to the world. They have used Palestine as a testing ground to show how new tools can enable mass killing. And they are banking that demand for their products might protect them on the world stage. More like this: Anthropic is NOT the Good Guy w/ Maddy Batt In part seven of Computer Says Kill, author of The Palestine Laboratory Antony Loewenstein explains that for Israel, precision warfare is just performative. Israel has the means to kill with precision, but this is at odds with the logics of genocide. Antony will take us through the history of Israel’s dealings with authoritarian states, and Israel and American states do not need to take state control of a their domestic tech industries because they are already so ideologically aligned with their regimes. Further reading & resources: Buy The Palestine Laboratory by Antony Loewenstein (Verso Books) Watch The Palestine Laboratory series on Al Jazeera ‘Hondurasgate,’ the alleged US and Israeli interference plot to destabilize Mexico and other progressive governments — El Pais May 2026 Israeli drone strikes on vehicles in Lebanon kill 12 people, including 2 children — LA Times May 2026 What is Project Nimbus? Al Jazeera, 2024 Israeli authorities are using facial recognition technology to entrench apartheid — on ‘Red Wolf’ from Amnesty International, 2023 Check out our Youtube for Tech Story of the Week **Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!** Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout
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#123
May 29 · 19 min
SPECIAL: Israel’s AI Kill List in Lebanon w/ Nabih Bulos
The Israeli military is using data, surveillance, and AI to kill noncombatants in Southern Lebanon. More like this: Computer Says Kill: Collapsing the Chain w/ with Matt Mahmoudi This week, we're kind of taking a break from our Computer Says Kill series to play a interview from our YouTube channel that is extremely relevant to the conversations we've been having about AI and militarization. Alix sat down with Nabih Bulos, the Middle East Bureau Chief at the LA Times, to discuss his recent reporting on Israel’s complex system of surveillance-driven targeting where, as he writes, even data from a phone can become a death sentence. Further reading & resources: Inside Israel’s AI targeting system: How data from a phone become a death sentence — Nabih Bulos, The Los Angeles Times, May 2026 Watch the interview on our YouTube channel Catch up on episodes of Computer Says Kill, our series on AI, warfare, and power **Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!** Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout
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#122
May 22 · 41 min
Computer Says Kill: Anthropic is NOT the Good Guy w/ Madeline Batt
Anthropic’s AI systems have been used in illegal American invasions in Iran and Venezuela. They have partnered with Musk in the disastrous Memphis Colossus facility. And yet! News coverage, some civil society, and a lot of normies act like Anthropic is one of the good guys. They aren’t! More like this: The Toxic Love Triangle of Big Tech, Big War & Big Science w/ David Gray Widder For part six of Computer Says Kill, we are joined by legal fellow Maddy Batt, who filed an amicus brief in the courtroom battle between Anthropic and the US Department of War. We talk about what we know from the lawsuit, what we know about how AI is being used in illegal invasions, and what might be possible for corporate accountability. Further reading & resources: The amicus brief filed by Tech Justice Law Buy Project Maven by Katrina Manson Autonomised Harming — Linda Eggert, July 2023 Autonomous Weapons Systems and Human Rights — Linda Eggert, July 2024 Moral Crumple Zones: Cautionary Tales in Human-Robot Interaction — Madeleine Clare Elish, 2019 **Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!** Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout
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#121
May 15 · 37 min
Computer Says Kill: The Toxic Love Triangle of Big Tech, Big War & Big Science w/ David Gray Widder
Academia, Big Tech, and the military are caught in a sordid love triangle — and their love language is money. More like this: Computer Says Kill: The Blank Check to Beat China w/ Lis Siegel For part five of Computer Says Kill, researcher David Widder describes the powerful trifecta that is academia, Big Tech, and the US military: all of them need each other to survive, but who is benefiting the most? Half of Carnegie Mellon’s research funding comes from the DoW or the DHS — and David will explain how it’s being used to both prop up war apparatus, and serve as an on-ramp to Big Tech platforms. Further reading & resources: It’s about power: What ethical concerns do software engineers have, and what do they (feel they can) do about them? — David Widder et al, June 2023 Basic Research, Lethal Effects: Military AI Research Funding as Enlistment — David Widder et al Open (For Business): Big Tech, Concentrated Power, and the Political Economy of Open AI — David Widder, Sarah West, Meredith Whittaker, August 2023 To Build Our Future, We Must Know Our Past: Contextualizing Paradigm Shifts in Natural Language Processing — Sireesh Gururaja, Amanda Bertsch, Clara Na, David Widder, Emma Strubell, December 2023 What Tech Calls Thinking by Adrian Daub The Undone Computer Science Conference Computer-vision research powers surveillance technology — Nature Magazine, June 2025 What’s happening in Memphis with Anthropic? — The Maybe Media **Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!** Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout
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#120
May 8 · 43 min
Computer Says Kill: The Blank Check to Beat China w/ Lis Siegel
The US is in a race to ‘beat China’ at AI. Or is it? What if I told you that powerful actors in the US have built the story of an all-or-nothing race to get what they want? More like this: Computer Says Kill: A License for Unlimited War w/ Amos Toh In part four of Computer Says Kill we are joined by Lis Siegel who shares the history. We start with a document produced by China in 2017, and arrive at today when the Chinese bogeyman is being used to drive money, political influence and supply chain control to a few US tech giants. Listen in for some insight into how we got here. Further reading & resources: Examining AI Safety as a Global Public Good: Implications, Challenges, and Research Priorities — Lis Siegel et al, March 2025 Silicon Valley enabled brutal mass detention and surveillance in China, internal documents show — AP News, September 2025 A Dark-Money Campaign Is Paying Influencers to Frame Chinese AI as a Threat — Taylor Lorenz, Wired, May 2026 Slogan Politics by Jinghan Zeng Breakneck: China’s Quest to Engineer the Future by Dan Wang Final Report from the National Security Commission for AI — 2021 Yellow Techno-Peril: The ‘Clash of Civilizations’ and anti-Chinese racial rhetoric in the US–China AI arms race — Kerry McInerney 2024 Bernie Sanders urges international cooperation to halt AI’s ‘runaway train’ — The Guardian, April 2026 **Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!** Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout
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#119
May 1 · 13 min
Short: RightsGone? Why Zambia May Have Pulled the Plug on RightsCon
RightsCon has just been cancelled by the Zambian government with no word to the organizers, five days before it was set to begin. RightsCon is the biggest annual global gathering of the digital rights community. Every year thousands of people come together to figure out how to make the internet safer and freer for everyone. When they can't connect, we all lose. Alix shares a few theories about why Zambia pulled the plug (geopolitics, trade deals, and "values"). She also talks through her views on what it could mean that safe global spaces for this work are collapsing, and why you should care even if you've never heard of RightsCon. If you were planning on attending RightsCon we're so sorry. If you're in Zambian civil society fighting for space to engage on these issues, please know there is a global community that has your back. Further reading & resources: World’s Largest Digital Human Rights Conference Suddenly Canceled — 404 Media, April 29 **Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!** Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout
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#118
May 1 · 47 min
Computer Says Kill: A License for Unlimited War w/ Amos Toh
Military spending on AI is a triple black box: How is AI being used in the military? Who is winning these contracts and what are they worth? And what is the military’s end-game here? More like this: How a Calculator Company Reshaped Modern Warfare w/ Jeff Stern Amos Toh will help us answer these questions in part three of Computer Says Kill. We will cover how military spending has changed over the last couple of decades: there has been a clear shift from the straightforward buying up of jets, to the over-reliance on licensed software. Amos also shares what hasn’t changed, which is: yes, the government still spend a hell of a lot of money on military tech. Further reading & resources: The Business of Military AI — Amos Toh, Emile Ayoub, March 2026 Read Amos and Emile’s explainer on the military’s use of AI Pentagon's use of Claude during Maduro raid sparks Anthropic feud — Axios, Feb 13 Department of War's Artificial Intelligence-First Agenda: A New Era for Defense Contractors — Holland & Knight, Feb 2026 The Double Black Box by Ashely Deeks AI at war: Five things to know about Project Maven — Euractiv, April 2026 Safety Co-Option and Compromised National Security: The Self-Fulfilling Prophecy of Weakened AI Risk Thresholds — Heidy Khlaaf, Sarah Myers West, April 2025 **Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!** Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout
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#117
April 24 · 37 min
Computer Says Kill: How a Calculator Company Reshaped Modern Warfare w/ Jeff Stern
Precision weapons are meant to make warfare more exact. But what happens when the executive branch uses precision as an excuse to make more war and target with less and less accountability for accuracy? More like this: Computer Says Kill: Collapsing the Chain w/ with Matt Mahmoudi In part two of Computer Says Kill, Jeff Stern shares how a calculator company transformed modern warfare by making more precise weapons. After the Second World War, the US military wanted to be able to wage more war and target with more accuracy. At first it was about saving American troops. Over time it became a permission structure for more executive control over lethal force. What does this history tell us about the role of precision and accountability in war? Further reading & resources: Get The Warhead by Jeff Stern now More on Weldon Word and the development of precise weaponry during the Vietnam war Operation Desert Storm: 25 years on — CNN 2019 Right to strike when your boss sells AI to the military? — Cori Crider, The Register Lecture, 2019 **Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!** Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout
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