Build, Repeat. (A Paces Podcast)

Coordinating the Decentralized Grid: Michael Grasso on GridRails and the Future of DER Orchestration

Michael Grasso spent his career building some of the largest residential virtual power plants in the country — from Vistra Corp Solar to Sunrun to Sunnova — before founding GridRails, a software platform built for load-serving entities to bring distributed energy resources online, visualize them, control them, and settle the economics, all through a single system. James and Michael dig into why only about 20% of the demand-response market has been captured despite roughly 11 million Americans already enrolled, and why Michael sees this as a two-sided problem: utilities lacking the tools to build flexible programs, and consumers uninterested in the rigid offerings they've been given. They talk through how real-time price and demand signals — rather than fixed, regulator-bound programs — could unlock far more participation. The conversation turns to one of the fastest-moving trends in the industry: the rise of "edge" data centers sited on distribution networks rather than transmission, and what it means to orchestrate flexibility for facilities whose inference-driven load rises and falls throughout the day. They also cover the regulatory tailwinds coming out of FERC Order 2222, why 34 states now have some form of structured VPP program, and why Michael argues that simplifying those programs — not adding more structure — is the real path to scale. A candid, wide-ranging conversation about coordination, complexity, and what it will actually take to keep the grid working as electrification accelerates. Paces helps developers find and evaluate the sites most suitable for renewable development. Interested in a call with James, CEO @ Paces?

Quantify what you can, intuit the rest: Engie's distributed development playbook for 2026

In this episode, James talks with Navya Gundeti, Director of Project Development at Engie North America, where she leads the distributed solar and storage development pipeline. Navya is operating in a market where five-year plans don't survive the year they were written. OBBBA, tariff whiplash, data center land competition, and reshuffled interconnection queues forced her team to rebuild its strategy in real time. Her case in this episode: rigorous quantification on what you can measure, honest intuition on what you can't, and a bet that the next real unlock for the industry is utilities and advanced computing finally meeting. Why distributed solar isn't a head-to-head competitor for data center load — but co-ops and munis facing first-time load growth are a real opening Competing with hyperscalers offering landowners $25K–$100K+ per acre, and why landowner education (not price) is the distributed developer's advantage The interconnection playbook shift: the right technology partners plus deep utility stakeholder relationships, not "submit and wait" Her hot take: the fusion of AI, quantum computing, and grid intelligence will flip the script. A must-listen for distributed solar and storage developers navigating the OBBBA aftermath, the data center wave, and the next phase of interconnection. Paces helps developers find and evaluate the sites most suitable for renewable development. Interested in a call with James, CEO @ Paces?

Scaling Distributed Generation Beyond Community Solar with Bill Francis from New Energy Equity

In this episode, James talks with Bill Francis, Vice President of Emerging Markets at New Energy Equity — a distributed solar developer that has spent over a decade building community solar programs across the country. Bill joined NEE at the end of 2025 after seven years at Engie, arriving right as the traditional community solar model is showing real strain. Programs are saturating. Development capital is tighter. The ITC safe harbor clock is ticking. His mandate: figure out what comes next — and build it. The case he makes in this episode is that the fundamentals for distributed energy are actually stronger than ever. The branding and program structure just need to change. Why community solar programs are hitting a wall — and the structures (feed-in tariffs, co-op PPAs, VPP tariffs) that could replace them The ITC safe harbor cliff at end of 2027: why developers need a three-dimensional strategy on equipment timelines, permitting, and safe harbor right now The distributed storage opportunity: why half an acre beats 80 acres — and why electric co-ops are among the most motivated customers for standalone batteries NEE's development DNA: why being judicious about when and how you de-risk assets matters more than ever when development capital is scarce A must-listen for distributed solar and storage developers thinking through market selection, capital discipline, and what the post-community solar era actually looks like. Paces helps developers find and evaluate the sites most suitable for renewable development. Interested in a call with James, CEO @ Paces?

A mile deep, not wide: NineDot's case for going all-in on one market with Sam McGarvey

In this episode, James talks with Sam McGarvey, Director of Origination at NineDot Energy — a developer, owner, and operator of front-of-meter battery storage systems across New York City's five boroughs. NineDot made a deliberate bet: ignore every other market and go all-in on the single hardest place to build energy storage in the country. That focus has taken them from 3 employees to 84, and toward 400–500 megawatts of distributed storage across New York City by the end of the decade. Sam breaks down what it actually takes to develop in NYC — and why the lessons apply everywhere. Why NYC's complexity is a feature, not a bug, for a focused developer The affordability story: 1.3 million NY utility customers behind on bills — and what storage can do about it Why January 2026 was a turning point: the first time ConEd included distributed storage in its load forecast A must-listen for developers navigating dense markets, complex permitting, and the next phase of distributed storage. Paces helps developers find and evaluate the sites most suitable for renewable development. Interested in a call with James, CEO @ Paces?

How virtual power plants became a daily grid resource with Matt Plante

In this episode, James talks with Matt Plante, President of Voltus, about what it actually takes to build a virtual power plant that grid operators call on every single day. Voltus aggregates distributed energy resources, including industrial loads, batteries, commercial buildings, and now residential assets, into virtual power plants that participate in wholesale electricity markets. Since April 2024, Voltus has been dispatched by a grid operator every single day, a milestone that signals demand flexibility has moved from emergency backup to standard operating procedure. Matt joins James to unpack how the company has grown 10x since their 2021 conversation, what finally made the battery cost curve work, and why the barriers to scale look nothing like the barriers to entry. James and Matt get into: Why the shift from no-load-growth to explosive load growth has changed what grid operators will consider, and how fast How batteries went from not penciling to the fastest-growing DER segment in Voltus's portfolio What data centers actually want from demand flexibility programs, and why forcing them to participate would backfire Why FERC 2222 hasn't delivered and what it actually takes to unlock new states for third-party demand response The grid's relationship to distributed resources has fundamentally changed, and this episode is a clear-eyed look at what made that shift happen and what comes next. Paces helps developers find and evaluate the sites most suitable for renewable development. Interested in a call with James, CEO @ Paces?

Learning from the last grid build-out (and why VPPs are the answer) with Mark Dyson

The grid has been here before. Between 1960 and 2000, US utilities grew demand 4–5x while cutting real electricity prices by 20%, and the lessons from that era are more relevant than ever. Mark Dyson is Managing Director of Electricity at RMI, where he's spent nearly two decades working on grid modernization, distributed energy resources, and the policy and market design that holds it all together. Before returning to RMI, he led analytics at Ascend Analytics, giving him a rare vantage point across both the technical and market sides of the energy transition. In this episode, Mark draws on that history to make the case that data center load growth isn't the crisis it's being framed as — it's a solvable problem, and virtual power plants are a big part of the solution. He breaks down why VPPs are 40–60% cheaper than gas peakers or batteries for meeting new peak demand, and what it actually takes to deploy them at scale. This episode covers: - The three lessons from last century's grid growth: embrace new technology, invest proactively in infrastructure, and make the most of existing capacity - Why virtual power plants are the fastest, most affordable tool for meeting data center demand growth - Why hyperscalers resist flexible load at the project level — and how paying others to curtail resolves that tension - Navigating permitting headwinds and the post-OBBBA policy environment If you're working on the energy transition, Mark's perspective on what history can actually teach us about today's challenges is essential listening. Learn more about RMI here. Paces helps developers find and evaluate the sites most suitable for renewable development. Interested in a call with James, CEO @ Paces?

Why grid planning is the hardest problem in energy right now with Derek Stenclik

In this episode, James talks with Derek Stenclik, Founding Partner at Telos Energy. Derek shares his path into the power sector, starting at GE where he spent nearly a decade working on grid planning, resource adequacy, and early studies on integrating wind and solar at scale, before co-founding Telos to tackle some of the grid’s most complex planning challenges. The conversation focuses on how utilities and grid operators are navigating an era of unprecedented uncertainty, driven by rapid load growth, shifting resource mixes, and long planning timelines. Derek shares how Telos approaches these challenges through advanced grid modeling, emphasizing the importance of scenario analysis, proactive planning, and better decision-making in the face of volatile forecasts and evolving market rules. Key topics include: Why grid modeling and scenario analysis are foundational to the energy transition Managing explosive load growth from data centers and large new loads The evolving role of load flexibility, batteries, and behind-the-meter generation Affordability, cost allocation, and the risk of stranded infrastructure A must-listen for anyone thinking about how reliability, affordability, and speed intersect in today’s power system. Reach out to Telos Energy by visiting their website. Paces helps developers find and evaluate the sites most suitable for renewable development. Interested in a call with James, CEO @ Paces?

Bridging the power gap: The fuel-flexible future for data centers with Craig Gordon

In this episode, James talks with Craig Gordon, Head of Global Policy, Regulatory Affairs, and Business Development at Mainspring Energy. Craig brings deep experience in clean energy—from scaling Invenergy’s wind and solar projects to shaping U.S. energy policy with the American Clean Power Association. Today, he’s helping Mainspring redefine dispatchable generation for a rapidly electrifying world. They discuss how Mainspring’s linear generator technology offers a modular, dispatchable solution ideal for the growing energy demands of hyperscale data centers. Craig shares insights on the importance of fuel flexibility, how the Inflation Reduction Act has reshaped deployment dynamics, and the policy shifts enabling faster, cleaner energy integration behind the meter. How Mainspring’s linear generator bridges the gap between renewables and dispatchable generation The role of fuel-flexibility (natural gas, hydrogen, ammonia) in enabling resilient siting Why data center load growth is stressing legacy regulatory frameworks How recent FERC policy shifts are opening new doors for behind-the-meter innovation A must-listen for developers navigating grid constraints, data center energy needs, and next-gen dispatchable tech. Paces helps developers find and evaluate the sites most suitable for renewable development. Interested in a call with James, CEO @ Paces?

Fixing the Grid-Data Center Disconnect with Tony Wagler and Alex Oort Alonso

In this episode, James talks with Tony and Alex from the Paces team about their recent white paper exploring the mismatch between data center growth projections and actual grid planning. Tony, a seasoned power developer, and Alex, a researcher focused on data center flexibility, dive into how speculative load growth is driving transmission investments that may never serve real projects. They discuss how Paces analyzed over 14 million Texas land parcels to identify where data centers could feasibly be built, incorporating constraints like power access, zoning, water, and community sentiment. The conversation reveals a fundamental disconnect: the grid is being built for data centers that may never exist, while truly viable sites often lack the needed power capacity. By taking a “land-first” approach, Paces offers a bottom-up, data-driven framework to inform smarter, faster, and more collaborative infrastructure decisions. Why ERCOT (Texas) was the ideal case study for this white paper. The speculative nature of current interconnection requests and its ripple effects. Key site viability criteria: power, topography, ownership, fiber, and water. Why only 17% of viable land near substations in Texas has withdrawal capacity. A must-listen for anyone building in clean energy, this episode offers a practical framework to better align developer needs with grid planning. Paces helps developers find and evaluate the sites most suitable for renewable development. Interested in a call with James, CEO @ Paces?

From Wall Street to Clean Energy: Investing in the AI-Powered Power Grid with Shanu Mathew

In this episode, James talks with Shanu Mathew, Senior Vice President at Lazard, where he co-leads a U.S. sustainable equity strategy. With a background in traditional finance and a passion for climate and sustainability, Shanu blends data-driven investing with macro-level insight into energy and technology transitions. They explore how Shanu’s career evolved from M&A banking to managing portfolios at the intersection of sustainability, power, and AI. The conversation ranges from the transformation of ESG investing, to the macroeconomic impact of AI on energy demand, and how public markets are trying to keep up with private innovation in data infrastructure. Shanu also unpacks what’s real (and what’s hype) in the current AI-capex boom. The evolution of ESG investing into a bottom-up, alpha-first approach Why AI is driving unprecedented power demand and reshaping energy markets The "chip to grid" value chain and where public market opportunities lie Physical bottlenecks like land, power, and permitting—and how they impact AI deployment If you want a deeply informed view on how capital markets are adapting to the climate-tech and AI megatrends, this episode is a must-listen. Paces helps developers find and evaluate the sites most suitable for renewable development. Interested in a call with James, CEO @ Paces?

Building Clean Data Center Infrastructure with Gabe Messercola

In this episode, James talks with Gabe Messercola, Director of Data Center Solutions at EDF. Gabe shares his journey from studying environmental policy and working as a rock climbing instructor to building renewable energy projects at Nexamp and leading innovative data center strategies at EDF. With deep experience in asset management and power markets, Gabe now focuses on aligning renewable generation with high-demand loads like data centers and flexible industrial users. They discuss the evolving relationship between renewables, load growth, and AI-driven data center demand. Gabe explains how EDF is solving curtailment and congestion challenges by co-locating load at underutilized wind and solar sites. He highlights EDF's work with Soluna on a 166 MW behind-the-meter data center and dives into the regulatory, technical, and financial structures enabling this model. The conversation also tackles the critical role of market incentives, competitive retail, and grid flexibility to unlock fast deployment and sustainable scale. How co-located data centers are unlocking value from stranded renewable assets The ERCOT PUN model and its role in hybrid project design The tension between AI uptime requirements and grid flexibility Why competitive retail markets like Texas are leading clean energy innovation This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the intersection of data centers, clean energy, and infrastructure innovation. Paces helps developers find and evaluate the sites most suitable for renewable development. Interested in a call with James, CEO @ Paces?

Master Planning the Energy Future with Nat Sahlstrom

In this episode, James talks with Nat Sahlstrom, Chief Energy Officer at Tract, a data center developer enabling the next generation of digital infrastructure. Nat shares his unconventional journey from Seattle’s punk rock scene to leading energy strategy at Amazon and now Tract. With over two decades in energy, he brings deep insight into the intersection of data center growth, power planning, and sustainable infrastructure. They explore the critical challenges and opportunities facing the energy system in the age of hyperscale AI. Nat discusses his experience building one of the world’s largest corporate renewable portfolios at Amazon and how Tract is addressing the power, land, and social license hurdles confronting data center developers today. He advocates for master-planned campuses as the key to responsible, scalable digital infrastructure and unpacks why the U.S. needs a World War II-level mobilization to meet future load demand. How hyperscaler energy needs are reshaping utility planning and permitting. The shift from back-office energy functions to front-page headlines. Why social license and stakeholder alignment are critical to infrastructure success. The case for horizontal and vertical integration in data center development. This episode is a must-listen for anyone thinking about where power, policy, and AI converge. Paces helps developers find and evaluate the sites most suitable for renewable development. Interested in a call with James, CEO @ Paces?

Building Community Trust in Clean Energy with Hilary Clark

In this episode, James talks with Hilary Clark, Senior Director of Social Licensing at the American Clean Power Association (ACP). With over two decades in permitting and regulatory affairs, Hilary brings deep expertise on how clean energy developers can effectively engage communities and navigate the complex siting landscape in the U.S. They discuss the evolving challenges in local and state-level permitting for wind, solar, and battery projects. Hilary explains the rise of moratoria and bans, the importance of community trust, and how ACP supports developers through advocacy, policy coordination, and digital tools. The conversation also covers the role of automation in feasibility analysis and the limits of technology in community engagement. The rise of permitting barriers like local moratoria and zoning bans The importance of social license and long-term community relationships How ACP leverages advocacy, policy expertise, and AI tools to support members Why the human element remains critical despite digital innovation This episode offers an essential look at the on-the-ground work required to accelerate clean energy deployment across the country. Paces helps developers find and evaluate the sites most suitable for renewable development. Interested in a call with James, CEO @ Paces?

Orchestrating Power for Data Centers with Brian Janous of Cloverleaf

In this episode, James talks with Brian Janous, Co-Founder and Chief Commercial Officer at Cloverleaf Infrastructure and former Head of Energy at Microsoft. With 25+ years in the utility space — including a decade leading Microsoft’s cloud energy strategy — Brian shares what it was like to scale power procurement during the hyperscale boom and why he founded Cloverleaf to solve the next frontier: grid-aligned power delivery for data centers. They explore the transition from fiber-first to power-first infrastructure, the myth of exponential energy growth, and the real reason AI is accelerating demand at an unprecedented pace. Brian unpacks the growing tension between real estate and power developers, the limitations of behind-the-meter hype, and why grid integration remains king. You’ll also hear insights on: Why utilities are overwhelmed by “two chucks in a truck” proposals What makes a site actually marketable to hyperscalers The misunderstood economics of flexible load and data center reliability How Cloverleaf partners to derisk power timelines and unlock investment Whether you’re a power developer, hyperscaler, or real estate operator, this episode offers a candid look at what it takes to deliver the electrons that fuel AI. Paces helps developers find and evaluate the sites most suitable for renewable development. Interested in a call with James, CEO @ Paces? Paces helps developers find and evaluate the sites most suitable for renewable development. Interested in a call with James, CEO @ Paces?

Real-Time Clean Energy Insights

In this episode, James talks with Michael Thomas, Founder of CleanView and creator of Distilled. Michael has built a career around impactful storytelling and actionable data, aiming to accelerate clean energy adoption. From tech marketing to climate entrepreneurship, he has channeled his curiosity into initiatives that demystify energy trends and empower decision-makers. They discuss the evolution and impact of CleanView, a real-time platform offering unmatched visibility into clean energy project development across the U.S. Michael shares the journey behind the product, why accessible, transparent data matters, and how policy, geography, and technology trends are shaping the renewable energy landscape. They also explore the political and economic implications of recent clean energy legislation and why active industry engagement is crucial. How CleanView reduces data friction for developers, EPCs, and investors Market trends: battery storage expansion, solar booms in the South, and wind project slowdowns The impact of proposed ITC/PTC tax credit changes on project viability The strategic importance of transparency, local engagement, and rural investment This episode is a must-listen for anyone serious about understanding the intersection of data, policy, and infrastructure in the clean energy sector. Paces helps developers accelerate clean energy infrastructure through comprehensive software and services. Interested in a call with James, CEO @ Paces? Paces helps developers find and evaluate the sites most suitable for renewable development. Interested in a call with James, CEO @ Paces?

Inside the Rapid Rise of Data Centers with Pat Lynch

In this episode, James talks with Pat Lynch, Executive Managing Director and Global Head of Data Center Solutions at CBRE. With 30+ years in digital infrastructure, Pat shares his journey from early fiber builds in the 90s to leading CBRE’s global data center strategy. They discuss how CBRE’s data center business scaled from 3% to 10% of company revenue through strategic talent and investment, and how today's growth is shaped by shifting from “bringing power to the site” to “bringing the site to power.” Pat breaks down the unique power challenges developers face, the rise of behind-the-meter generation, and why delivery speed is everything in today’s market. You’ll also hear insights on: AI’s impact on siting and infrastructure design The risk of stranded assets in power-constrained markets Navigating utility slowdowns and regulatory uncertainty Global growth opportunities and future talent needs in the sector Whether you’re in energy, real estate, or tech, this episode delivers a front-row seat to the forces reshaping the future of data infrastructure. Paces helps developers find and evaluate the sites most suitable for renewable development. Interested in a call with James, CEO @ Paces?

Al and Early De-Risking: The Future of Solar Development

In this episode, James sits down with Paces colleagues Kyle Baranko and Tony Wagler to discuss their new white paper, “Pre-Development at Scale: Modeling Risk in Early-Stage Solar Development”. They dive into how AI, probabilistic methods, and standardized development workflows can dramatically reduce soft costs and increase project success rates. Kyle shares how Monte Carlo simulations were used to model development risks and timelines, while Tony outlines the four key archetypes—environmental, permitting, design, and interconnection—that shape project outcomes. They explain how early de-risking leads to faster decisions, improved IRRs, and better positioning in incentive programs. Other topics include: Why 70–90% of post-site control projects fail The power of failing fast and cutting development timelines by up to 50% How automation preserves data integrity while saving time Real-world feedback from developers and IPPs A new interactive tool to explore portfolio-level risks Whether you’re a solar developer, investor, or curious about energy infrastructure, this conversation offers practical insights into the future of clean energy project planning. Paces helps developers find and evaluate the sites most suitable for renewable development. Interested in a call with James, CEO @ Paces?

• Transcript

Investing in Early-Stage Energy Developers with Christine Larson

In this episode, we sit down with Christine Larson, Head of Strategy & Operations at Modern Energy and interim COO at Industrial Sun, to explore how early-stage developers can thrive in a landscape defined by high complexity, capital intensity, and shifting market signals. Christine shares how Modern’s model goes beyond funding—providing hands-on operational support like IT and accounting—so founders can focus on what really matters: building and scaling transformative energy projects. We dive into: Why Modern invests in niche, high-complexity infrastructure like green hydrogen and EV fleet charging How capital bottlenecks and tariff uncertainty are shaping developer risk Why utility coordination and contract innovation are now mission-critical How partnerships, not just tech, will drive the future of energy Christine and James explore how strategic collaboration—between developers, capital partners, and load customers—is key to unlocking the next generation of clean energy infrastructure. Paces helps developers find and evaluate the sites most suitable for renewable development. Interested in a call with James, CEO @ Paces?

• Transcript

The AI Power Puzzle: Grid Flexibility vs. Off Grid Microgrids

The power demands of AI data centers are skyrocketing—but how will we meet them? In this episode, James sits down with Tyler Norris (Duke University) and Kyle Baranko (Paces) to dig into two influential white papers offering different solutions. One explores off-grid, solar-plus-storage microgrids as a fast, clean option. The other highlights how we can better utilize existing grid capacity by embracing flexible interconnections and load curtailment. Together, they explore: The case for behind-the-meter energy systems How hyperscaler reliability demands shape power strategies What ERCOT is getting right—and where other markets are lagging The regulatory, financial, and technical barriers to scaling solutions fast If you're working on energy, data infrastructure, or just curious about how AI’s growth will reshape the grid—this one’s for you. Paces helps developers find and evaluate the sites most suitable for renewable development. Interested in a call with James, CEO @ Paces?

• Transcript

Beyond the Grid: The Race to Reimagine Energy with Nan Ransohoff & Duncan Campbell - E140

In this episode, we sit down with Nan Ransohoff and Duncan Campbell to discuss the evolving landscape of solar microgrids, AI data centers, and the urgent need for climate-driven innovation. Duncan reflects on how today’s energy solutions are just the beginning, predicting a future where bold, disruptive action reshapes the grid. We dive into: How Stripe and Paces are driving groundbreaking projects Why the electricity sector needs faster adaptation to climate challenges The role of AI and next-gen energy solutions Why ambitious ideas that seem “too crazy” might not be crazy enough James McWalter urges innovators to push harder and move faster—the fight against climate change isn’t slowing down, it’s speeding up. If you’re working on bold ideas in energy, reach out! To learn more about the white paper visit www.offgridai.us/. Paces helps developers find and evaluate the sites most suitable for renewable development. Interested in a call with James, CEO @ Paces?

• Transcript