Better Future with Michael Mezz

Michael Mezzatesta

Bringing you the people, projects and ideas helping steer the world toward a better future.

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S1 · E17
August 20 · 1 hr 40 min
What Comes After Capitalism? | Timothée Parrique on Degrowth, Ecology, and the Future (017)
My guest today is Dr. Timothée Parrique – ecological economist and author of Slow Down or Die: The Economics of Degrowth. Tim is one of the clearest and most-cited academics in the degrowth movement. We recorded this conversation in Paris in the middle of a heat wave – fitting conditions for a conversation about overshooting planetary boundaries. Support the Better Future podcast by becoming a paid subscriber on Substack, where we also publish frequent articles about system change: https://betterfuturemedia.substack.com/ This episode was filmed at the Académie du Climat, Paris's climate-education hub, which generously provided the space – merci! https://www.academieduclimat.paris/ In this episode, we break down the problems with economic growth, and why Tim calls green growth "macroeconomic greenwashing." We explore what degrowth would be like in daily life – working less, sharing more, and reclaiming what sociologists call “time wealth.” Then Tim lays out how a post-capitalist economy would actually work: democratic businesses, participatory budgeting, Vienna-style nonprofit housing, local currencies, wealth caps, and a monetary system designed to sustainably deliver social and ecological returns. We end with the gift economy, and why the best things in life have never shown up in GDP. Learn more about Timothée Parrique and his work: https://timotheeparrique.com/ Check out Tim's mom's choir, Chœur Dédicace :) https://choeurdedicace.fr/ Here are links to the resources mentioned in our conversation: Tim's book, Slow Down or Die: The Economics of Degrowth: https://bookshop.org/p/books/slow-down-or-die-the-economics-of-degrowth-timoth-e-parrique/621938db18e607a5 Our episode with Johan Rockström on planetary boundaries: hhttps://open.spotify.com/episode/7k0jRrHuX1dgTAdZ9h2rLy?si=KFZh2YHlTpS-VrQZhzHfpw Prosperity Without Growth by Tim Jackson: https://timjackson.org.uk/ecological-economics/pwg/ Limitarianism: The Case Against Extreme Wealth, by philosopher Ingrid Robeyns: https://astrapublishinghouse.com/product/limitarianism-9781662601842/ Vienna's nonprofit housing model, which keeps median rents at roughly half of Paris levels: https://socialhousing.wien/policy/the-vienna-model The Eusko, the Basque Country local currency Tim pays for his baguettes with – currently the largest local currency in France: https://www.euskalmoneta.org/ Follow Tim on social media: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/timotheeparrique/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timothée-parrique-7b593450/ Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/timparrique.bsky.social Subscribe to the Better Future podcast on your preferred platform: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@michaelmezz Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/16K0dkbk35q0mTslKJJ7z0 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/better-future-with-michael-mezz/id1823942833 Pocket Casts: https://pca.st/4mgozhfv Follow Michael on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/michael__mezz/ Follow the Better Future Podcast on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betterfuturepod/ 00:00 Green growth: Macroeconomic greenwashing 00:53 Introducing Timothée Parrique 01:45 Ecological issues with economic growth 04:39 Does more growth in developed countries improve lives? 07:58 Can growth be “green?” 15:46 Can capitalism be “green?” 20:43 Degrowth vs. recession 32:18 What degrowth would be like: work less, live more 41:07 Moving away from advertising & consumption 50:47 What is post-capitalism? Toward a democratic economy 59:16 Liberating resources for development & wellbeing 1:03:45 How do we get there? Removing growth imperatives 1:10:54 Financing post-capitalism: a new monetary system 1:24:04 Decentralizing power via wealth caps 1:33:49 Demonetarization, melting currencies & the gift economy 1:39:19 Conclusion Host/Creator: Michael Mezzatesta Guest: Timothée Parrique Producer: Jade Risser Editor: Nuria Salgado Thanks for watching episode 017. Stay tuned for more!
S1 · E16
July 29 · 1 hr 47 min
How to Overcome Capitalism – Jason Hickel on Socialism, China, and the West (016)
My guest today is Dr. Jason Hickel – professor at the Institute for Environmental Science & Technology (ICTA) at the Autonomous University of Barcelona, and author of The Divide and Less Is More. This is our second conversation on the podcast, and it comes at a moment of escalating geopolitical violence – in Iran, Lebanon, Cuba, and beyond. In this episode, we get into how these conflicts are symptoms of capitalist imperialism: Western states asserting dominance over sovereign-seeking states to protect their own growth. We dive into ecosocialism as an alternative to capitalism, and what economic democracy actually looks like in practice. We cover China’s rise – how its economy actually works, why the West has turned against it, and what it means for the Global South – and we end with a discussion of how to build the mass movements capable of bringing a better future to life. You can support the Better Future podcast by becoming a paid subscriber on Substack: https://betterfuturemedia.substack.com/ Here are links to the resources mentioned in our conversation: Mondragon Corporation, the worker-owned cooperative federation in Spain that Jason mentions as a real-world model of economic democracy: https://www.mondragon-corporation.com/en/ GKN Factory in Florence, Italy, which workers have converted from an auto parts plant into a solar panel factory: https://jacobin.com/2023/04/italy-gkn-factory-occupation-transform-production-workers-jobs-climate-change Jason’s Substack article on “delinking”: https://jasonhickel.substack.com/p/what-is-delinking Global Inequality Project, a research platform by Jason and team that publishes data on imperialism, unequal exchange, and global inequality: https://globalinequality.org/ Learn more about Jason Hickel and his work: https://www.jasonhickel.org/ Follow Jason Hickel on social media: Twitter: https://x.com/jasonhickel Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drjasonhickel/ Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/jasonhickel.bsky.social Subscribe to the Better Future podcast on your preferred platform: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@michaelmezz Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/16K0dkbk35q0mTslKJJ7z0 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/better-future-with-michael-mezz/id1823942833 Pocket Casts: https://pca.st/4mgozhfv Follow Michael on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/michael__mezz/ Follow the Better Future Podcast on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betterfuturepod/ 00:00 What capitalism really is 01:09 Introducing Jason Hickel 02:20 Capitalist imperialism in action: Venezuela, Iran, Lebanon 05:27 Why the US supports Israel 08:45 Capitalism, coups & the war on sovereignty 22:13 How capitalism creates poverty 25:25 Socialism as a solution 31:41 Why solving the climate crisis means overcoming capitalism 36:09 Economic democracy in practice 48:09 Elections vs. revolution: building a mass movement 57:01 The immiseration of the Western working class 59:28 Socialism is our best alternative to fascism 1:06:31 The limits of identity politics 1:13:52 Why the West fears China’s rise 1:20:16 How China builds what the West won’t 1:32:54 Delinking from the capitalist law of value 1:38:02 Hope for a better future 1:46:51 Conclusion Host/Creator: Michael Mezzatesta Guest: Jason Hickel Editor: Nuria Salgado Designer: Amea Wadsworth Producer: Jade Risser Thanks for watching episode 016. Stay tuned for more!
S1 · E15
June 25 · 52 min
How to Solve the Climate Crisis – Johan Rockström on Planetary Boundaries & the Path Forward (015)
My guest today is Johan Rockström – one of the world’s leading climate scientists and the co-creator of the ‘planetary boundaries’ framework. His work is the scientific foundation for much of the new economic thinking I've explored on this show. We recorded this conversation at the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research, and our discussion covers why the climate crisis is no longer a purely environmental or moral issue but a question of security, resilience, and prosperity. We also dive into the nine planetary boundaries – what they are, how many we've breached – and the ecological tipping points we are approaching within the earth system. We end with a discussion of the path forward, including needed transformations across our energy and food systems – and how some countries are starting to lead the way toward a better future. You can support the Better Future podcast by becoming a paid subscriber on Substack: https://betterfuturemedia.substack.com/ __ Johan references the second EAT-Lancet Commission report, which found that the way we produce and consume food is now the single largest cause of breaching planetary boundaries: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(25)01201-2/abstract He also references this Nature paper on the combined role of climate change and deforestation in pushing the Amazon rainforest across a potential tipping point: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-026-10456-0 At the end of our conversation, we discuss the Second Conference for the Just Transition Away from Fossil Fuels, which is happening next year in Tuvalu: https://transitionawayconference.com/ __ Follow Johan Rockström: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johan-rockstr%C3%B6m-325551331/ X: https://x.com/@jrockstrom Follow the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PotsdamInstitute LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/pik-potsdam-institute-for-climate-impact-research/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pik_klima X: https://x.com/PIK_Climate Subscribe to the Better Future podcast on your preferred platform: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@michaelmezz Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/16K0dkbk35q0mTslKJJ7z0 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/better-future-with-michael-mezz/id1823942833 Pocket Casts: https://pca.st/4mgozhfv Follow Michael on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/michael__mezz/ Follow the Better Future Podcast on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betterfuturepod/ __ 00:00 Ecological overshoot – but there is a path forward 00:49 Introducing Johan Rockström 01:37 Narrative shift: climate is becoming a security issue 06:44 Planetary boundaries, explained 10:46 The Great Acceleration & the Anthropocene 13:35 7 of 9 boundaries exceeded but it’s not too late 22:20 Tipping points explained (with examples) 28:12 Debunking climate misinformation 34:41 What we need to do: Innovate within constraints 37:56 Energy transition & food system transition 42:01 The political economy of solving the climate crisis 44:44 The path forward: Building coalitions of the willing 51:59 Conclusion __ Host/Creator: Michael Mezzatesta Guest: Johan Rockström Producer: Jade Risser Editor: Nuria Salgado Designer: Amea Wadsworth Thanks for watching episode 015. Stay tuned for more!
S1 · E14
June 4 · 1 hr 20 min
How Economics Failed Us – Kate Raworth on Why We Need Doughnut Economics Instead (014)
My guest today is Kate Raworth – renegade economist, author of Doughnut Economics, and co-founder of the Doughnut Economics Action Lab. We get into why mainstream economics leaves out ecology, inequality, and human wellbeing – and what a 21st century economic framework should look like. Kate introduces doughnut economics: a model for meeting the needs of all people within the planetary boundaries of the planet. We discuss the fictional character at the core of mainstream economics, the entrenched narratives holding us back, and how cities like Amsterdam are adopting doughnut economics to move towards a better future. Learn more about the Doughnut Economics Action Lab: https://doughnuteconomics.org/ Support the Better Future podcast by becoming a paid subscriber on Substack: https://betterfuturemedia.substack.com/ Subscribe to the Better Future podcast: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@michaelmezz Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/16K0dkbk35q0mTslKJJ7z0 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/better-future-with-michael-mezz/id1823942833 Check out Kate’s website to learn more about her work: kateraworth.com Find Kate’s book, Doughnut Economics, on Bookshop: https://bookshop.org/p/books/doughnut-economics-seven-ways-to-think-like-a-21st-century-economist-kate-raworth/c567b77a6aa8a1bf Follow Kate on social media: Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/kateraworth.bsky.social LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kate-raworth-188399291/ X: ⁠https://x.com/KateRaworth Follow Michael on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/michael__mezz/ Follow the Better Future Podcast on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betterfuturepod/ Timestamps: 00:00 The myth of human nature 01:05 Introducing Kate Raworth 02:18 Should we trust economists? 09:03 The power of diagrams 11:14 Inside the doughnut 15:28 Externalities and earth systems 19:24 Rational Economic Man 28:01 Distributive ownership 31:05 Beyond the capitalism vs. socialism paradigm 39:29 Our addiction to growth 43:53 From growth to thriving 46:15 Mapping our lock-ins to growth 51:35 Doughnut economics in action 01:03:18 Having kids and climate anxiety 01:08:13 Kate as a circus ringmaster 01:19:52 Conclusion Host/Creator: Michael Mezzatesta Guest: Kate Raworth Producer: Jade Risser Editor: Nuria Salgado Designer: Amea Wadsworth Thanks for watching episode 014. Lots more on the way!
S1 · E13
May 13 · 1 hr 3 min
013 - Olivier De Schutter on Why the Economy Creates Poverty – and How To Fix It
My guest today is Olivier De Schutter – UN Special Rapporteur on Extreme Poverty and Human Rights, and one of the most important voices in the global movement to redesign the economy around human wellbeing rather than endless growth for the ultra-rich. We recorded this conversation at the +Wellbeing Economy Forum in Iceland, and our discussion covers a lot of ground – the myths that prop up capitalism; the winners and losers of globalization; the case for economic democracy; how to direct capital toward care work and the solidarity economy; and what a post-growth transition would actually look like. For a detailed picture of the policies that can guide this transition, you can view the newly-released roadmap “Eradicating Poverty Beyond Growth” here: https://www.neep-poverty.org/roadmap-for-eradicating-poverty-beyond-growth/ Support the Better Future podcast by becoming a paid subscriber on Substack: https://betterfuturemedia.substack.com/ Learn more about the Wellbeing Economy Forum, an annual conference in Iceland for the wellbeing economy movement: https://www.wellbeingeconomyforum.com/ Subscribe to the Better Future podcast on your preferred platform: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@michaelmezz Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/16K0dkbk35q0mTslKJJ7z0 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/better-future-with-michael-mezz/id1823942833 Follow Olivier on social media: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/olivier-de-schutter-83990552/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/odeschutter/ X: https://x.com/DeSchutterO Follow Michael on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/MICHAEL__MEZZ/ Watch our clips on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betterfuturepod/ 00:00 Intro: The economy panders to the rich 00:58 Introducing Olivier De Schutter 01:47 Why capitalist efficiency is a myth 07:19 Has capitalism actually defeated poverty? 12:27 The commodification of life and the dismantling of the commons 16:28 The winners and losers of growth and globalization 22:21 The progressive alternative to protectionism 30:38 Why we need economic democracy 35:46 The Easterlin paradox: growth without happiness 39:34 Post-growth as a culture shift 43:10 How international debt traps the Global South 50:43 Care work, wages, and the solidarity economy 59:00 Recessions are not post-growth 01:02:45 Conclusion Host/Creator: Michael Mezzatesta Guest: Olivier De Schutter Producer: Jade Risser Editor: Nuria Salgado Designer: Amea Wadsworth Thanks for watching episode 013. Stay tuned for more!
S1 · E12
April 29 · 48 min
012 - Rob Hopkins on Radical Imagination & Falling in Love with the Future
My guest today is Rob Hopkins – co-founder of the Transition Network, a global movement supporting communities to reimagine and rebuild their local economies in response to climate and economic crisis. He's the author of several books, including his most recent, How to Fall in Love with the Future, which makes the case that imagination – not fear – is the most powerful force for change we have. We discuss the limits of the climate movement’s fear-based narrative, Afrofuturist and other resistance movements bringing Rob and Michael hope, and what it means to build a mass longing for a better world. We also did a live imagination exercise with the audience – and you'll want to stick around for it. This was the first-ever live interview on the Better Future podcast, recorded at ChangeNOW in Paris. Learn more about Rob and his work: https://www.robhopkins.net/ Find his new book, How to Fall In Love With The Future, on Spotify and Bookshop. Support the Better Future podcast by subscribing: Substack:⁠ https://michaelmezzatesta.substack.com/⁠ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@michaelmezz Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/16K0dkbk35q0mTslKJJ7z0 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/better-future-with-michael-mezz/id1823942833 Follow Rob on social media: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/robhopkins5085/ X: https://x.com/robintransition LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-hopkins-09442948/ Learn more about ChangeNOW, an annual climate solution conference in Paris: https://www.changenow.world/ Timestamps: 00:00 Filling our minds with stories of hope 00:53 Introducing Rob Hopkins 02:14 Why the future is being canceled (and colonized) 03:34 The problem with the climate movement 08:02 Afrofuturism, Sun Ra, and filling the future with stories 12:15 What “longing” means - and why it matters 16:43 Filling our minds with better stories 21:39 Is climate optimism naive? 26:04 Evidence-based dreaming 29:21 Stopping the rise of the far right: the UK Green Party 33:10 Why fascism hates creativity 38:33 Afrofuturist history & reimagining the future from the US 43:20 Live exercise: Imagining a better future 48:27 Conclusion Credits: Host/Creator: Michael Mezzatesta Guest: Rob Hopkins Producer: Jade Risser Editor: Nuria Salgado Designer: Amea Wadsworth Thanks for watching, and see you soon!
S1 · E11
April 10 · 1 hr 16 min
011 - Dr. Butch Ware on Dismantling the US Empire and the Two-Party System
My guest today is Dr. Butch Ware – historian, professor, and Green Party candidate for Governor of California. In this episode, Dr. Ware argues that the Democrat-Republican duopoly serves the same corporate donors, wages the same wars, and has delivered the same failed outcomes for working people – and that California's 2026 governor's race is a chance for something better. We get into why the lesser-of-two-evils argument keeps well-intentioned voters trapped, what a world built around universal healthcare, housing, and human rights could look like, and how the ongoing collapse of the US empire might be the political opportunity progressives have been waiting for. Support the Better Future podcast on Substack: https://michaelmezzatesta.substack.com/ Support Dr. Ware’s campaign for California Governor: https://www.butchware4gov.com Note: Dr. Ware is currently appealing a legal decision (made after we recorded) that would remove his name from the California ballot. His social media channels will have updates on the status of his appeal 👇 Follow Dr. Ware on social media: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/butchware X: https://x.com/butchware TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@butch.ware Subscribe to the Better Future podcast: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@michaelmezz Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/16K0dkbk35q0mTslKJJ7z0 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/better-future-with-michael-mezz/id1823942833 Follow Michael on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/michael__mezz/ Follow the Better Future podcast on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betterfuturepod/ 00:00 Intro: The extinction burst of American empire 00:58 Introducing Dr. Butch Ware 01:34 The viability of third party politics in California 08:00 The “lesser of two evils” trap 14:53 The corporate power behind both major parties 21:17 The extinction burst of the American empire & what comes next 24:52 What comes after empire? A vision for a care economy 35:39 Why a care economy is better for everyone 39:28 The stock market is not the economy 44:22 War, capitalism and resource extraction 49:37 Investing in wellbeing instead of empire 55:15 The UK Green Party breakthrough 1:01:05 Policy Vision: Healthcare, Housing, and Human Rights 1:10:41 Why Dr. Ware & the Greens can win 1:15:08 Conclusion Host/Creator: Michael Mezzatesta Guest: Dr. Butch Ware Producer: Jade Risser Editor: Nuria Salgado Designer: Amea Wadsworth Thanks for watching episode 011. Lots more on the way.
S1 · E10
March 16 · 58 min
010 - Greg Stoker on Iran, U.S. Imperialism, and Why the Wars Never Stop
My guest today is Greg Stoker, a former U.S. Army Ranger who has become a prominent anti-imperialist activist, journalist, and geopolitical commentator. In this conversation, we discuss the escalating conflict in Iran and the broader forces driving U.S. military intervention abroad. Greg shares an insider perspective on how soldiers are taught to understand America’s role in the world, the pervasive influence of evangelical Christianity within the military, and the ideological forces behind U.S. foreign policy. Finally, we talk about his run for Congress (TX-31), and what ordinary people can do to challenge imperialism and build a more peaceful and democratic world. Support the Better Future podcast on Substack: https://michaelmezzatesta.substack.com/ Support Greg’s campaign for Congress: https://www.stokerfortexas.com/ Follow Greg on social media: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/greg.j.stoker/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@greg.j.stoker X: https://x.com/gregjstoker Follow Greg’s podcast Colonial Outcasts: Youtube: https://youtube.com/@colonialoutcasts Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1o0MF5fJM6Wjdhm0vjx4To Subscribe to the Better Future podcast: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@michaelmezz Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/16K0dkbk35q0mTslKJJ7z0 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/better-future-with-michael-mezz/id1823942833 Pocket Casts: https://pca.st/podcast/2559a4c0-39f4-013e-1c18-0acc26574db2 Follow Michael on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/michael__mezz/ Follow the Better Future podcast on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betterfuturepod/ You can email Michael at michael@betterfuture.media 0:00 This is a war on the working class 1:41 Introducing Greg Stoker 2:39 Why the U.S. & Israel are waging war in Iran 6:08 U.S. capitalist imperialism and wars on the working class 11:49 Why the U.S. needs homelessness 15:32 Debunking justifications for this war in Iran 24:42 The role of radical Christian evangelicalism 29:31 Israel’s role in the “rapture” 33:20 Why evangelical ideology is useful to billionaires 37:36 AI for military targeting 40:50 Pathways toward a better future 46:24 Building coalitions across movements 57:25 Conclusion Host/Creator: Michael Mezzatesta Guest: Greg Stoker Editor: Nuria Salgado Designer: Amea Wadsworth Thanks for watching episode 10. Lots more on the way :)
S1 · E9
February 12 · 1 hr 4 min
009 - Saikat Chakrabarti on Billionaires, AI, and How to Reclaim Democracy
My guest today is Saikat Chakrabarti – former chief of staff to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, co-founder of Justice Democrats, co-author of the Green New Deal, and now a candidate for Congress running to replace Nancy Pelosi in San Francisco. We discuss whether the Democratic Party can be transformed from within, why corporate money has hollowed out American politics, and what it would take to build an economy that works for everyone. We also dive deep into AI – who should control it, and why leaving decisions about humanity’s future in the hands of a handful of tech CEOs may be the most dangerous form of deregulation yet. Support Saikat’s campaign for Congress: https://www.saikat.us/ Support the Better Future podcast on Substack: https://michaelmezzatesta.substack.com/ Follow Saikat on social media: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/saikatforcongress TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@saikatforcongress X: https://x.com/saikatc Subscribe to the Better Future podcast: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@michaelmezz Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/16K0dkbk35q0mTslKJJ7z0 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/better-future-with-michael-mezz/id1823942833 Follow Michael on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/michael__mezz/ Follow the Better Future podcast on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betterfuturepod/ 0:00 Who controls AI’s future? 0:46 Intro: Saikat Chakrabarti 1:19 Corporate capture in the democratic party 7:03 From tech millionaire to “class traitor” 10:57 Scapegoating immigrants and abolishing ICE 13:48 Reagan’s neoliberal legacy and the case for public investment 22:02 The “March for Billionaires” and wealth inequality 31:33 Building a net zero, high wage economy 42:00 A new foreign policy beyond colonialism 48:43 AI, China, and democratic control of technology 56:46 Replacing corporate Democrats 1:00:16 Cutting funding to Israel 1:02:46 Supporting Saikat Host/Creator: Michael Mezzatesta Guest: Saikat Chakarbarti Editor: Nuria Salgado Designer: Amea Wadsworth Thanks for watching episode 009. Lots more on the way :)
S1 · E8
January 29 · 37 min
008 - Lessons From Resisting ICE — Strategies That Work for the Left (with Aru Shiney-Ajay)
My guest is Aru Shiney-Ajay, Executive Director of the Sunrise Movement. We spoke while Aru was on the ground in Minneapolis during an unprecedented wave of ICE raids that have shaken the city – and sparked a powerful, decentralized organizing response. We go beyond the headlines to what’s actually working: neighborhood-level organizing, mutual aid networks, logistical disruption, and new strategies for building power. We also zoom out to reflect on what this moment means for the broader left: how movements can shift from defense to offense, and what lessons from Minneapolis can be applied elsewhere as people across the country (and the world) grapple with authoritarianism, repression, and political paralysis. Join the Sunrise Movement and/or learn more about their work: https://www.sunrisemovement.org/ Follow Aru on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/aru_sa/ Support the Better Future podcast on Substack: https://michaelmezzatesta.substack.com/ Subscribe to the Better Future podcast: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@michaelmezz Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/16K0dkbk35q0mTslKJJ7z0 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/better-future-with-michael-mezz/id1823942833 Follow Sunrise Movement on social media: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sunrisemvmt/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@sunrisemvmt X: https://x.com/sunrisemvmt/ Follow Michael on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/michael__mezz/ Follow the Better Future podcast on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betterfuturepod/ 0:00 ICE targets mutual aid deliveries 0:44 Intro: Aru Shiney-Ajay 1:45 On the ground in Minneapolis 6:13 Organizing: What’s working? 13:40 Going on the offensive 20:58 Strikes & worker power 24:54 Lessons for the broader movement 34:12 How to get involved 37:22 Conclusion Host/Creator: Michael Mezzatesta Guest: Aru Shiney-Ajay Editor: Nuria Salgado Designer: Amea Wadsworth Thanks for watching episode 008. Lots more on the way :)
S1 · E7
January 7 · 1 hr 15 min
007 – Steven Donziger on Chevron, Corporate Retaliation, and Climate Justice
My guest today is Steven Donziger, a human rights and environmental lawyer best known for leading a historic legal case against Chevron on behalf of Indigenous communities in the Ecuadorian Amazon. We discuss Chevron’s environmental crimes, the weaponization of the legal system, the implications of the recent $600+ million verdict against Greenpeace USA, and what all of this means for climate activism, democracy, and political resistance today. Support the campaign to restore Steven’s law license: https://chuffed.org/campaign/standwithdonziger Sign Greenpeace’s open letter against the Energy Transfer verdict: https://www.greenpeace.org/usa/energy-transfer-lawsuit/ Read Steven’s writing on Substack: https://substack.com/@stevendonziger Follow Steven on social media: Twitter: https://x.com/SDonziger Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/stevendonziger/ Support the Better Future podcast by subscribing: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@michaelmezz Substack: https://substack.com/@michaelmezzatesta Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/16K0dkbk35q0mTslKJJ7z0 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/better-future-with-michael-mezz/id1823942833 Michael on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/michael__mezz/ The Better Future podcast on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betterfuturepod/ 00:00 Chevron doesn’t want you to hear this 00:34 Introducing Steven Donziger 02:12 The legal battle against Chevron 09:05 Chevron’s power in Ecuador 11:28 Shifting the cultural narrative 17:05 The legacy of the Ecuadorian people’s win 18:59 Chevron’s retaliation strategy against Donziger 24:10 Personal struggles & resilience 27:43 House arrest & disbarment 34:40 History repeats: Energy Transfer vs. Greenpeace 39:34 The ongoing criminalization of climate advocacy 44:00 The lack of opposition & what to do about it 52:06 Elite capture & lessons from history 54:42 A movement towards democratic socialism? 58:38 Reasons for hope (& skepticism) 1:02:20 Historical examples of political transformation 1:07:06 Actions to take now 1:10:15 Self-care, resilience & solidarity 1:12:18 The campaign to restore Steven’s law license 1:14:58 Conclusion & links Host/Creator: Michael Mezzatesta Guest: Steven Donziger Editor: Nuria Salgado Designer: Amea Wadsworth Thanks for watching episode 007. Lots more on the way :)
S1 · E6
Dec 11, 2025 · 1 hr 19 min
006 – Donnie Maclurcan on Post-Growth Economics & the Future Beyond Capitalism
My guest today is Donnie Maclurcan, founder of the Post Growth Institute and a thinker who played a major role in my own journey. In this episode, Donnie breaks down why money accumulation under capitalism necessarily produces rising debt and inequality, leading to human suffering and ecological breakdown. We also go deep into possibilities for a better future – including the ways not-for-profit business models are quietly succeeding inside capitalism, what a post-capitalist economy could feel like, and what we can do now to participate in a post-growth future. Thanks to Vista House Marin for providing us with such a lovely space for this shoot. Follow Donnie on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/donniemaclurcan/ Dive into the work of the Post Growth Institute: https://postgrowth.org/ Read their writing on Medium: https://medium.com/postgrowth Support the Better Future podcast by subscribing: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@michaelmezz Substack: https://substack.com/@michaelmezzatesta Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/16K0dkbk35q0mTslKJJ7z0 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/better-future-with-michael-mezz/id1823942833 Follow the PGI on social media: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/postgrowth/ X: https://x.com/postgrowth Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/postgrowth.org Michael Mezz on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/michael__mezz/ The Better Future Podcast on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betterfuturepod/ I originally discovered Donnie and his work thanks to the Denizen community and podcast. Learn more about Denizen here: https://www.becomingdenizen.com/ 00:00 Intro: Planting seeds for the future 01:04 Introducing Donnie Maclurcan 02:38 What is post-growth? 06:37 Capitalism's inherent inequality and debt 10:06 The monetary system and debt creation 18:49 The human and ecological impacts of debt 28:08 Why efficiency can’t solve the climate crisis 30:21 Why inequality is inherent to capitalism 33:39 Imagining a post-capitalist future 37:25 Existing examples of post-capitalist businesses 47:37 Why money circulation is key 51:58 How to participate in post-capitalism now 57:18 The importance of indigenous wisdom 1:06:00 The wisdom of marginalized communities 1:08:32 Collapse and post-capitalism 1:18:28 Conclusion Host/Creator: Michael Mezzatesta Guest: Donnie Maclurcan Editor: Nuria Salgado Designer: Amea Wadsworth Sorry I forgot to put on socks before starting the shoot 😅 Thanks for watching episode 006. Lots more on the way.
S1 · E5
Oct 22, 2025 · 1 hr 18 min
005 - Grace Blakeley on Power, Inequality, and How Elites Captured Capitalism
My guest today is Grace Blakeley – UK-based political economist and author of three books, including her most recent: Vulture Capitalism. We discuss how political and corporate elites work together to protect their interests, why governments prop up monopolies, and how “the system” isn’t broken – in fact, it’s working exactly as it’s designed. We also touch on the history of capitalism and enclosure, the global legacy of imperialism, and why the struggle for a better future is ultimately a struggle over power. Learn more about Grace, her work, and her books: https://graceblakeley.co.uk/ Read Grace’s writing on Substack: https://graceblakeley.substack.com/ Support the Better Future podcast by subscribing: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@michaelmezz Substack: https://substack.com/@michaelmezzatesta Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/16K0dkbk35q0mTslKJJ7z0 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/better-future-with-michael-mezz/id1823942833 Follow Grace on social media: Twitter: https://x.com/graceblakeley Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/grace.blakeley/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@graceblakeley0 00:00 Intro: Rich people don’t create jobs 01:16 Introducing Grace Blakeley 03:05 The system isn’t broken – it’s working as designed 10:46 Keynesianism, Marxism, and dialectical materialism 16:45 How state and corporate elites work together 22:44 The moral hazard of neoliberal capitalism 27:26 Who actually takes risk? 31:19 The history of enclosure & primitive accumulation 37:09 Capitalism’s expansion through colonialism & imperialism 43:40 The myth of “prosperity for all” under capitalism 51:28 The myth of innovation under capitalism 56:22 Trumpism’s destruction of visions for the future 59:08 The importance of unions & collective action 1:05:33 The importance of community & mutual aid 1:12:12 Diagnosing the recent success of the right 1:14:24 Embedding democracy in work & politics 1:18:24 Conclusion Host/Creator: Michael Mezzatesta Guest: Grace Blakeley Editor: Nuria Salgado Sound editor: Andre Corea Designer: Amea Wadsworth Thanks for watching episode 005. Lots more on the way :)
S1 · E4
Sep 4, 2025 · 51 min
004 - Elizabeth Booker Houston on Race, Class, and the Future of the Left
My guest today is Elizabeth Booker Houston – lawyer, comedian, and political commentator based in Washington DC. We discuss white supremacy in US politics, how to integrate class consciousness with anti-racism, the false myth of “rugged individualism,” and how to build a bridge between identity politics and class politics within the progressive movement. Follow Elizabeth Booker Houston on social media: Substack: https://bookersquared.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bookersquared TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@bookersquared Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/elizabeth.booker.houston YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@bookersquared Support the Better Future podcast by subscribing: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@michaelmezz Substack: https://substack.com/@michaelmezzatesta Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/16K0dkbk35q0mTslKJJ7z0 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/better-future-with-michael-mezz/id1823942833 Note: This conversation was recorded before the recent Wired article about Chorus – a liberal content creator incubator program, of which Elizabeth is a member – so I didn’t ask about it during this interview. 00:00 Introduction: leftism & whiteness 03:18 White supremacy in MAGA & US politics 07:23 Bridging the gap between race & class politics 13:57 Intersections between race & other leftist issues 17:20 Black leadership in the history of US leftism 20:43 The politics of disability & neurodivergence 23:43 The myth of rugged individualism 30:42 Elizabeth is MAGA-coded? 32:08 Do souls exist? 34:08 Raw milk and micro-aggressions 36:36 Politician lightning round: RFK & Elon Musk 38:49 Politician lightning round: Newsom, Harris, Booker 41:42 AOC, Mamdani, Buttigieg, Crockett 45:26 The progressive movement needs leaders 48:32 What a better future looks like 50:03 Conclusion Host/Creator: Michael Mezzatesta Guest: Elizabeth Booker Houston Video editor: Nuria Salgado Sound editor: Andre Corea Designer: Amea Wadsworth Thanks for watching episode 004. Lots more on the way :)
S1 · E3
Jul 31, 2025 · 1 hr 16 min
003 - Jason Hickel on Post-Capitalism, Degrowth, and Why Capitalism Can’t Solve Climate Change
My guest today is Jason Hickel, Professor at the Institute for Environmental Science & Technology (ICTA) at the Autonomous University of Barcelona, and author of two books: The Divide and Less is More. We discuss why a growth-based capitalist economy is incompatible with a livable planet, and what a truly democratic, post-capitalist economy could look like. We cover lots of topics – including degrowth, AI, the history of capitalist imperialism, and how to achieve a democratic ecosocialist transition. Thanks to Pompeu Fabra University (UPF) for generously providing us with a space for this interview. Learn more about Jason Hickel and his work: https://www.jasonhickel.org/ Check out https://globalinequality.org/ to view Jason’s recent project (created in collaboration with a team of fellow researchers) which visualizes data and research on global inequality. Support the Better Future podcast by subscribing: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@michaelmezz Substack: https://substack.com/@michaelmezzatesta Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/16K0dkbk35q0mTslKJJ7z0 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/better-future-with-michael-mezz/id1823942833 Follow Jason Hickel on social media: Twitter: https://x.com/jasonhickel Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drjasonhickel/ Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/jasonhickel.bsky.social 00:00 Introduction: the climate crisis myth 00:35 Introducing Jason Hickel 02:07 The disconnect between GDP and wellbeing 04:08 Capitalism's flawed production priorities 07:05 The need for economic democracy 11:04 Public finance and climate mitigation 16:12 AI and capitalism 20:52 Building political power for change 25:04 The public job guarantee 34:06 Taxing the rich for a better future 37:00 The benefits of an ecosocialist transition 43:42 Imperialism and the military-industrial complex 48:54 US foreign policy and imperialism 57:31 The hypocrisy of liberalism 1:06:42 Some questions from the audience 1:08:48 Gramsci & other historical figures 1:15:18 Conclusion Host/Creator: Michael Mezzatesta Guest: Jason Hickel Editor: Nuria Salgado Designer: Amea Wadsworth Thanks for watching episode 003. Lots more on the way :)
#2
Jul 10, 2025 · 1 hr
002 – Building Community Power in a Failing System (with Raymond Wei)
My guest today is Raymond Wei – filmmaker, community organizer, and co-founder of The Conscious Citizens. Ray creates sharp, accessible videos about everything from geopolitics to community organizing, and his work is rooted in on-the-ground experience. In this episode, we talk about building community power, the rise of the authoritarian police state, and how to lay the bricks for a better future – even when it feels like things are going in the wrong direction. Support the Better Future podcast by subscribing: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@michaelmezz Substack: https://substack.com/@michaelmezzatesta Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/16K0dkbk35q0mTslKJJ7z0 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/better-future-with-michael-mezz/id1823942833 Follow Ray and his work: The Conscious Citizens: https://www.theconsciouscitizens.org/ Ray on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/raytrospectively/ Ray on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@raytrospectively Ray on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@raytrospectively Thanks for watching episode 002. Lots more on the way :) Host/Creator: Michael Mezzatesta Guest: Raymond Wei Producer: Andre CoreaDesigner: Amea Wadsworth Intro/Outro music: Carlos Carty 0:00 Intro 1:56 Hypernormalization explained 6:53 Capitalist realism 12:42 What would a better future look like? 16:42 Shifting our values 21:25 The solidarity economy 25:36 Is capitalism required for innovation? 35:06 Everything is connected to Palestine 39:29 The rise of the surveillance state 49:33 Concrete steps toward building a better future 59:21 Outro
#1
Jun 25, 2025 · 1 hr 12 min
001 — Is Capitalism Compatible with a Green Future? (with Aru Shiney-Ajay)
Welcome to the Better Future podcast. My guest today is Aru Shiney-Ajay, Executive Director of the Sunrise Movement. We discuss the state of the left, the importance of activism, the future of the Democratic Party, and how to align our political and economic systems with a better future. To join the Sunrise Movement and/or learn more about their work, visit their website. Support the Better Future podcast by subscribing: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@michaelmezz Substack: https://substack.com/@michaelmezzatesta Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/16K0dkbk35q0mTslKJJ7z0 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/better-future-with-michael-mezz/id1823942833 Host/Creator: Michael Mezzatesta Guest: Aru Shiney-Ajay Producer: Andre Corea Designer: Amea Wadsworth Intro/Outro music: Carlos Carty Thanks for watching episode 001. Lots more on the way :)

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