Behind the Built Environment

BESA

Behind the Built Environment, a podcast from BESA where we delve into the latest industry news in the building engineering services sector.
Join us for insightful discussions and exclusive interviews with leading industry experts, as we explore the trends and innovations shaping the future of the built environment and what impact they will have on you and your business.

Find us at https://www.thebesa.com/

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30 episodes
Updated July 23

Episodes30

Newest first

July 23 · 30 min
Thermal Insulation Can No Longer Mark Its Own Homework
The thermal insulation sector can no longer rely on self-certification to prove that work is safe, effective and properly installed. In this episode of Behind The Built Environment Extra, BESA Chief Executive David Frise speaks with Marion Marsland, Chief Executive of TICA, and Helen Anderson, Deputy Chief Executive of TICA, about proposals for a third-party accredited competence assessment standard for thermal insulation contractors. TICA is proposing an independently accredited standard combining a business review with a technical audit of completed work. It would verify that contractors select the right products, use competent people and follow correct installation methods. The discussion examines why paperwork alone cannot prove competence and how credible assessment can challenge poor performance while helping contractors improve. This episode explores: • Why competence must be demonstrated through evidence and technical assessment • How independent audits could assess thermal insulation workmanship on site • Why trade associations cannot credibly mark their own homework • How poor insulation workmanship creates energy, carbon and safety risks • What the Building Safety Act means for specialist contractor competence • How aligned assessment standards could strengthen the wider supply chain • Whether verified competence can help contractors secure better quality work With energy costs, net-zero targets, and safety placing greater scrutiny on insulation, the discussion considers how credible assessment could raise standards, reduce risk, and establish thermal insulation as a skilled discipline. Learn more about the BESA Competence Assessment Standard and independent audit process. https://www.thebesa.com/besa-membership/competence-assessment-standard-audit Behind The Built Environment is the official podcast of BESA (Building Engineering Services Association). We examine the regulations, challenges and innovations shaping the future of UK construction and building services engineering. https://www.thebesa.com/behind-the-built-environment #ThermalInsulation #ConstructionCompetence #BuildingSafetyAct #EnergyEfficiency #BESA
July 2 · 44 min
The Construction Skills Crisis Is A Capacity Problem
Construction’s skills crisis may be less about attracting new people and more about the industry’s inability to absorb, develop and make effective use of them. In this episode of Behind the Built Environment, David Frise, Chief Executive of BESA, speaks with Mark Farmer, founder of CAST Consultancy and author of the landmark Modernise or Die report. Almost ten years after the report was published, Mark reflects on how much construction has genuinely changed and why its traditional labour model continues to struggle. The conversation challenges the assumption that the industry simply has a shortage of people and argues that it has an absorption problem, a competence problem and, ultimately, a capacity problem. This episode covers: • Why does construction have an absorption issue rather than an attraction issue • The three Cs of capability, competency and capacity, and how they interact • Whether the Building Safety Act is driving genuine change or only a thin layer of compliance • Gateway 2 and the case for earlier collaboration between design and construction • Procurement, trust and the debate around cash retentions • Digital competency passporting and raising standards across the supply chain • Why doing the job properly should cost less, not more As the Building Safety Act continues to reshape expectations around competence and accountability, the industry faces a choice between genuine cultural change and box-ticking compliance. This episode explains why capacity, rather than headcount alone, is the measure that matters, and what needs to change across procurement, regulation, and training to close the gap.
June 4 · 32 min
Modern Life Runs On An Industry Nobody Notices
Refrigeration and cooling underpin almost everything modern life depends on, yet the sector remains largely invisible to the public, policymakers and even many of the organisations that rely on it. In this episode of Behind the Built Environment, David Frise, Chief Executive of BESA, speaks with Stephen Gill, technical advisor to REFCOM, past president of the Institute of Refrigeration and founder of World Refrigeration Day. Stephen brings decades of experience across engineering, contracting, design consultancy, policy and international advisory work. The conversation explores why a sector central to food security, healthcare, data, communications, and comfort continues to undervalue itself, and what that means as major regulatory and technical changes approach. This episode covers: Why refrigeration and cooling remain hidden in plain sight despite underpinning daily life The case for treating cooling as critical national infrastructure The HFC phase-down and the risk of divergence between the UK and the EU The difference between competence and basic compliance, and why both matter How contractors should advise clients on ageing equipment and asset risk Conscious inclusion and making space for neurodiverse talent Dyslexia, disclosure and the gap between education and the workplace As the UK moves towards a steeper HFC phase-down, contractors and clients face complex decisions on equipment, refrigerants and long-term asset risk. Poor information, weak asset registers and outdated assumptions could leave many exposed to avoidable cost and disruption. The discussion sets out how the sector can move beyond minimum compliance towards genuine competence, trusted advice and greater confidence in the value it brings to society.
May 14 · 38 min
Why Construction Keeps Solving The Wrong Problem
Construction is good at delivering projects. Too often, it starts before asking whether it is solving the right problem. In this episode of Behind the Built Environment, BESA Chief Executive David Frise speaks with Mark Enzer, former Chief Technical Officer at Mott MacDonald and former head of the UK National Digital Twin Programme, about why construction needs to rethink value, data and outcomes. Mark argues that the built environment cannot achieve better outcomes by improving delivery alone. To create greater value, the industry needs to examine how decisions are made, how organisations work together, and how data is used throughout the full life of an asset. Rather than focusing solely on digital tools, this episode examines the thinking that needs to change before technology can make a meaningful difference. It explores why systems thinking, digital twins and AI are only useful when they support clearer outcomes, better decisions and more joined-up ways of working. This episode explores: • What systems thinking means in the built environment • Why cost control is different from value creation • How siloed organisations and disconnected data limit progress • The role of digital twins in making better decisions faster • Why collaboration needs stronger outcome-based incentives • How AI could support systems thinking, and where the risks sit From infrastructure delivery and net zero to procurement, resilience and digital transformation, this is a practical discussion about why the built environment needs to start with outcomes before it starts with delivery. If you work in construction, infrastructure, building services engineering or public sector procurement, this episode offers a direct and practical examination of how the industry can move beyond cost, packages and projects and start solving the right problems.
April 2 · 35 min
Why UK Construction Projects Fail Before They Start
Most construction problems are created before a project even reaches site. In this episode of Behind the Built Environment, BESA Chief Executive David Frise speaks with Beth West, founder and director of Navigate Advisory and former Chief Executive of East West Railway Company, about why construction projects fail at the earliest stages. Drawing on experience across HS2, Thames Tideway, Transport for London and East West Rail, Beth explains how poor client capability, weak project definition and misaligned incentives drive cost escalation and inefficiency across the UK built environment. Rather than focusing on delivery alone, this episode examines the decisions that shape outcomes long before construction begins. It challenges the assumption that building is always the answer, explores the risks of uncontrolled design development, and highlights how procurement models, culture and lack of trust continue to limit performance across the industry. This episode explores: Why construction projects fail due to poor early decision making The role of the client in defining scope, outcomes and value Why building is not always the right solution How procurement models limit innovation and productivity The impact of complexity and uncontrolled design development on cost How trust, culture and data transparency shape project outcomes From housing policy and infrastructure delivery to procurement reform and the Building Safety Act, this is a practical discussion about how early decisions shape outcomes across the UK built environment. It also raises fundamental questions about capacity, skills and whether the industry is solving the right problems in the first place. If you work in construction, infrastructure, building services engineering or public sector procurement, this episode is a direct and practical examination of why the industry keeps repeating the same mistakes and what it would take to stop. Behind The Built Environment is the official podcast of BESA (Building Engineering Services Association). We dive into the regulations, challenges, and innovations shaping the future of UK construction and HVAC. https://www.thebesa.com/behind-the-built-environment #UKConstruction #ConstructionIndustry #ProjectManagement #Procurement #BuildingSafetyAct
March 24 · 35 min
Building Safety Act Competence And Why A Certificate Is Never Enough
Competence under the Building Safety Act is often misunderstood, with serious consequences for mistakes. In this episode of Behind the Built Environment Extra, BESA Chief Executive David Frise speaks with Kizzy Augustin, Partner at Mishcon de Reya, about what genuine competence looks like under the Act and why the industry's current approach to evidencing it falls short.Kizzy outlines the four pillars of competence under the Act: skills, knowledge, experience and behaviours, and explains why behaviours are the hardest yet most essential to evidence. She also addresses the uncomfortable reality of gaslighting in the competence market, where some training providers claim only their course makes you compliant, and sets out how clients and contractors should respond.This episode covers:• What competence really means under the Building Safety Act• Why a certificate alone is never sufficient evidence• The difference between individual competence and organisational capability• How to use PAS 8671 and PAS 8672 correctly and avoid common misuses• Gaslighting in the competence market and how to challenge it• The risks posed by proposed changes to apprenticeship end-point assessments• Three questions every client or main contractor should ask before appointing a specialist contractor.If you are appointing contractors or being appointed, this episode sets out exactly what the Building Safety Act expects and how to evidence it. Download BESA's practical Client's Guide to the Building Safety Act and get clear on your legal duties: https://www.thebesa.com/clients-guide-building-safety-actBehind The Built Environment is the official podcast of BESA (Building Engineering Services Association). We dive into the regulations, challenges, and innovations shaping the future of UK construction and HVAC.https://www.thebesa.com/behind-the-built-environment
March 4 · 32 min
Are Clients Ready For Their Responsibilities Under The Building Safety Act?
The Building Safety Act has transformed client responsibilities across construction, but is the industry truly ready? In this episode of Behind the Built Environment, BESA ChiefExecutive David Frise speaks with Lilly Gallafent of CAST Consultancy about what the Building Safety Act means in practice for clients, contractors and consultants navigating Gateway 2 and Gateway 3. They examine how the Building Safety Act is reshaping procurement, early contractor engagement and design development, and why client accountability can no longer be passed down the supply chain. The discussion explores the role of the Building Safety Regulator, the risks emerging as Gateway 3 approvals approach, and whether the sector is confusing compliance paperwork with genuine quality. This episode covers: • Client responsibilities under the Building Safety Act • The impact of Gateway 2 on procurement and design • Gateway 3 risks and evidence requirements • Competence and compliance across the supply chain • Why culture change remains the biggest barrier to safer buildings The Building Safety Act is the most significant change tobuilding regulations in a generation. With Gateway 2 approvals increasing scrutiny and Gateway 3 set to test whether projects have truly been built as designed, this discussion highlights what client responsibility now looks like in practice and why culture change, not just compliance, will determine whether reform succeeds. If you are a client commissioning building work, downloadBESA’s practical Client’s Guide to the Building Safety Act and understand exactly what your legal duties are: https://www.thebesa.com/clients-guide-building-safety-act Behind The Built Environment is the official podcast of BESA(Building Engineering Services Association). We dive into the regulations, challenges, and innovations shaping the future of UK construction and HVAC. https://www.thebesa.com/behind-the-built-environment #BuildingSafetyAct #Gateway2 #Gateway3 #BuildingRegulator #ConstructionIndustry#BuildingRegulations
January 28 · 27 min
Why Most Modular Construction Firms Fail — and How Reds10 Is Beating the System
In this episode of Behind the Built Environment, BESA Chief Executive David Frise speaks with Paul Ruddick, Chair of Reds10, about why industrialised construction must move from ambition to execution if the sector is to thrive. Paul reflects on Reds10’s journey from a bedroom start-up to a £200m, debt-free business and explains why many modular firms fail by scaling too fast without fixing process, design and culture. He shares his perspective on fragmentation in construction, the role of digital tools and AI, and why vertically integrated models are key to improving productivity and quality. From government procurement and planning delays to standardisation, diversification and decarbonisation, this episode offers a candid, experience-led view on what it will take for offsite construction — and the wider industry — to deliver sustainable growth and real transformation.
January 13 · 31 min
Competent or Compliant? The Hard Truth the Industry Still Doesn’t Want to Hear
In this episode of Behind the Built Environment, BESA Chief Executive David Frise is joined by Jon Vanstone, Chair of the Industry Competence Committee, to unpack what competence really means in a post-Grenfell world. John explains why compliance alone is no longer enough, highlighting gaps in behaviour, culture and client understanding that continue to undermine safety. The discussion explores the evolving role of the Building Safety Regulator, lessons from Gateway 2, and why proof of competence matters more than experience or assumptions. Listeners can also download BESA’s Building Safety Act Industry Report 2025, which reveals industry attitudes, competence gaps and practical insights to help businesses prepare for regulatory change.
Dec 10, 2025 · 37 min
You Can’t Plead Ignorance: Why Every Contractor Needs to Understand the Law
In 2023, contractor Andrew Blunsdon was charged with two counts of bribery following Operation Truman, the investigation into how contracts were awarded on E On energy projects between 2011 and 2015. The case centred on favours to key E On figures: an air-conditioning unit for a flower shop run by Marc Baker, and payments routed through a subcontractor that ultimately benefited a consultancy linked to Matthew Hayward. This episode looks beyond the charges to the impact of a justice process that spanned 15 years: interviews in 2016, charges in 2023, sentencing in 2025, and a Proceeds of Crime hearing still ahead in 2026. In that time, Andrew’s business collapsed, his pension disappeared, and the emotional cost fell heavily on his family. This isn’t about re-running a trial. It’s about understanding how a contractor with no criminal intent can become entangled in a criminal case—and what every professional in the built environment needs to learn from it. If you’ve ever thought, “Just help the client out; I’ll ask questions later,” this is the episode you cannot afford to miss.
Oct 30, 2025 · 47 min
Is Construction's Business Model Broken?
In this episode of Behind the Built Environment, BESA Chief Executive David Frise speaks with Professor Noble Francis, Economics Director at the Construction Products Association, about the forces shaping the future of UK construction. Noble shares insights from the CPA’s latest forecasts and explains why construction is facing a “capacity crisis” driven by skills shortages, market uncertainty, and fragmented business models. He discusses the growing influence of AI investment, the long-term outlook for infrastructure and retrofit, and the structural reforms needed to improve productivity across the sector. From bond markets and government policy to the realities of net zero and ESG, this episode offers a clear-eyed economic perspective on where the industry is heading and what it will take to build resilience and sustainable growth.
Sep 25, 2025 · 29 min
Building the Future with Skanska
In this episode of Behind the Built Environment, BESA Chief Executive David Frise speaks with Dan Williams, Managing Director of Skanska UK’s building services division, SRW, about the shifting dynamics of the construction and facilities management market. Dan reflects on his journey from student engineer to MD and shares how agility, technical expertise, and long-term customer relationships are helping Skanska navigate uncertainty. He highlights the challenges of attracting new talent, the growing role of digital tools and modular construction, and why sustainability, delivery certainty, and whole-life value will define the industry’s next decade.
Sep 10, 2025 · 26 min
Will Inheritance Tax Changes Destroy Family Businesses? Fiona Graham on What Owners Must Do Now
BESA Chief Executive David Frise sits down with Fiona Graham, Chief Operating Officer at Family Business UK, to unpack what recent inheritance tax reforms mean for family-owned firms. From her journey in public affairs to leading the national body championing these enterprises, Fiona shares candid insights on succession, governance, and giving family businesses a stronger voice in policy debates. She explains why the government’s changes to business property relief could put long-standing firms at risk, why specialist advice is now essential, and how planning early can protect continuity. Despite her pessimism about policy shifts, Fiona remains optimistic about the resilience, creativity, and future growth of family businesses across the UK.
Aug 28, 2025 · 24 min
More Time, Same Pay: The Surprising Truth About the 4-Day Work Week
In this episode, host David Frise, Chief Executive of BESA, speaks with Ian McCall, Managing Director of Alba Facility Services, a Glasgow-based FM company pioneering a four-day working week with no loss of pay. The conversation explores how this bold shift has improved productivity, staff wellbeing, and retention, while also enhancing sustainability and client service. Ian shares how Alba partnered with Strathclyde University to turn what began as a pilot into a model for modern workplace culture. He discusses the challenges of change management, the importance of communication, and the surprising benefits—such as childcare savings—that have emerged along the way.
Aug 14, 2025 · 33 min
Behind The £350 Billion Question: Can Smarter Procurement Fix Construction?
BESA Chief Executive David Frise sits down with Mark Robinson, CEO of SCAPE, to explore how smarter procurement can transform the built environment. From his journey as a Sheffield YTS apprentice to leading one of the UK’s most influential public sector procurement authorities, Mark shares candid insights on driving social value, achieving net zero, tackling the skills gap, and embracing AI. Discover why he believes standardisation could unlock huge efficiencies, how SCAPE balances commercial innovation with public responsibility, and why he remains optimistic about the construction industry’s future—despite being a Sheffield Wednesday fan.
Jul 11, 2025 · 41 min
Behind AI in Building Maintenance
In this episode, host David Frise, Chief Executive of BESA, speaks with Mike Talbot, CTO of SFG20, about the growing role of AI in building maintenance and compliance. Mike shares how the Grenfell tragedy inspired his move into the built environment, leading efforts to apply AI, IoT, and predictive analytics to streamline maintenance scheduling, automate asset management, and support regulatory compliance. The conversation explores both the opportunities—such as sensor-driven diagnostics, digital twins, and upskilling via natural language AI—and the risks, including hallucinations, ethical missteps, and overreliance on flawed data. Mike stresses that while AI can dramatically boost efficiency, expert human oversight is essential in compliance-critical areas. Used responsibly, AI offers huge potential to modernise building maintenance—delivering safer, smarter outcomes across the built environment.
Jul 3, 2025 · 37 min
Behind the Digital Thread
In this episode of Behind the Built Environment, BESA Chief Executive David Frise speaks with Paul Wilkinson, Vice Chair of NIMA, about the shift from Building Information Modelling (BIM) to broader information management across the built environment. Paul explains how NIMA evolved to support a more inclusive, long-term approach to managing data across the lifecycle of built assets. He highlights the importance of the golden thread, interoperability, and whole-life asset thinking—key to improving safety, compliance, and performance. Emphasising that digital transformation is driven more by culture and people than technology, Paul calls for clearer communication, industry-wide collaboration, and trusted data as the foundation for future innovations like AI and digital twins. Success, he says, will mean seamless data flow from construction through to asset management by 2030.
Jun 26, 2025 · 27 min
World Refrigeration Day Special
In this special episode marking World Refrigeration Day, host David Frise, Chief Executive of BESA, speaks with Dr Catarina Marques, a leading UK expert in refrigeration engineering. The discussion highlights the critical yet often overlooked role of refrigeration in modern society. Dr Marques shares insights from her 15+ years of experience across food service cooling, Net Zero innovation, and integrated energy systems. The conversation emphasises the urgent need to prioritise sustainable refrigeration in the built environment and recognise the sector’s vital contribution to achieving Net Zero targets.
Jun 18, 2025 · 35 min
Behind Grenfell Tower
In this first episode of the Behind the Built Environment Podcast Extra, BESA Chief Executive David Frise speaks with Peter Apps, Deputy Editor of Inside Housing and author of Show Me the Bodies, about the legacy and lessons of the Grenfell Tower Inquiry. Peter reflects on six years of covering the inquiry, exploring its impact on the construction sector, the ongoing culture of minimal compliance, and the urgent need for meaningful reform. He discusses the inquiry's findings, missed opportunities for accountability, and the critical role of leadership, enforcement, and ethical responsibility in ensuring building safety. Drawing on his extensive reporting, Peter stresses that cultural change must go beyond regulations—starting with clients and driven by individuals committed to doing the right thing. For those looking to understand and respond effectively to the post-Grenfell regulatory landscape, visit the BESA Building Safety Act Hub. It offers essential guidance, resources, and updates to help professionals and organisations navigate their responsibilities under the new legislation and lead the way in a safer, more accountable built environment.
Jun 4, 2025 · 32 min
Behind the CCPI
In this episode of Behind the Built Environment, BESA Chief Executive David Frise speaks with Amanda Long, Chief Executive of Construction Product Information Ltd (CPI), about the critical role of accurate, transparent construction product data. Amanda discusses the Code for Construction Product Information (CCPI), a post-Grenfell initiative designed to drive cultural and behavioural change in the way manufacturers provide information. Drawing on her background in ethical business and consumer protection, Amanda highlights the importance of leadership, accountability, and continuous improvement—especially in an industry long reliant on checklists over responsibility. The conversation also explores the challenges SMEs face, the impact of legislation, and why product claims must match real-world performance. Amanda makes a passionate case for industry-wide commitment to safer, more reliable buildings, where every product decision contributes to public trust and safety. Find out more at www.cpicode.org.uk