Ahrefs Podcast

This isn’t your typical marketing fluff. It’s real, unscripted conversations with sharp founders, CMOs, and operators who’ve actually built something. Hosted by Ahrefs’ CMO Tim Soulo, who’s not afraid to challenge guests or call BS, you’ll get deep dives into the stuff that actually moves the needle: positioning, growth, hiring, branding, mistakes, wins, and what it really takes to grow a business.

Think of it as a free consulting session every other week… that just happens to be recorded.

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S7 · E3
September 15 · 1 hr 1 min
Get Millions of Views Without Paying for a Single Ad | Ariel Rubin (Air)
How do you triple revenue while cutting marketing spend by 90%? Ariel Rubin, VP of Content at Air, did exactly that — and won two Webbys along the way — without ever having a budget bigger than $100K per campaign. Ariel breaks down the playbook behind Air's viral marketing: working with 86-year-old TV legend Maury Povich for "almost nothing," shooting a Webby-nominated video with a two-person crew for $2,500, and growing Air's Instagram from 6,000 to nearly 70,000 followers in seven months — all organic. You'll learn why distribution — not the idea — is the real challenge, how Ariel runs a three-person content team that punches far above its weight, and why he refuses to offload creative thinking to AI. Tim and Ari also brainstorm a viral book trailer live on air, debate whether SaaS is becoming a commodity like water, and get into the real talk on backlash and controversy in brand marketing. Timestamps: (00:00) Intro (00:48) Ariel's favorite Air campaign: the Maury Povich story (02:57) Showing up bigger than you are (04:35) Is a celebrity campaign actually cost-effective? (06:10) Why distribution — not the idea — is the real challenge (08:43) Short-form Instagram and events as distribution (10:45) A tour of Air's wildest campaigns (13:47) What's done in-house vs. with contractors (16:30) Real campaign budgets: $2,500 to $67,000 (21:39) Why AI can't replace taste and creative ideation (23:15) Live brainstorm: making a viral book ad (28:50) Why real effort beats AI-generated video (30:49) How Air integrates brand into top-of-funnel content (39:56) Inside Air's three-person content team (46:23) Liquid Death, SaaS as a commodity, and brand differentiation (49:55) Backlash, controversy, and pulling the Bonnie Blue campaign (56:15) Turning Air's office into a creative events hub (58:25) Rapid fire: overrated trends, book recs, and brands to watch Ariel Rubin: LinkedIn | X | Air Tim Soulo: LinkedIn | X | Website Referenced: Air Liquid Death ClickUp Uncanny Valley by Anna Wiener The Middle Passage by James Hollis Kareem Rahma / Subway Takes Ahrefs If you enjoyed this episode, follow the Ahrefs Podcast and leave a rating — it helps others find the show.
S7 · E2
September 1 · 1 hr 13 min
How to Actually Make $1M From a Business Book | Jeff Goins
Can a business book actually make you a million dollars? The surprising answer is yes — but almost none of that money comes from book sales. Tim's book DISCOVERABLE is now available for pre-order → ahrefs.com/discoverable Best-selling author Jeff Goins breaks down the real economics of publishing: why books are "a bad business model," how the back-end (courses, consulting, software, higher-converting leads) is where the money lives, and why one enterprise company saw higher contract values simply by mailing their CEO's book to every lead in their CRM. Jeff is the author of The Art of Work and Real Artists Don't Starve, and runs a consulting firm that helps thought leaders turn big ideas into bestselling books. He was also Tim's personal mentor throughout the writing of DISCOVERABLE — Tim's first book, where he distills the marketing fundamentals behind Ahrefs' growth into a framework any brand can use to get found. You'll learn how much a first-time author can realistically sell, what it costs to buy your way onto the NYT or WSJ bestseller lists, why most business books suck, and whether you should self-publish, go hybrid, or go traditional. In this episode: (00:00) Intro (00:39) How much money can a first-time author actually make? (02:51) How many copies do Jeff's clients really sell? (06:52) The real reasons people write books (that aren't money) (10:40) Why writing a book humbles you — and the pay-to-play tricks in publishing (13:03) Proving a book's value: the CRM story and building real authority (24:43) Client anecdotes: General McChrystal and the payoff of a book (27:26) Where to start: the book proposal vs. the book plan (36:43) Why the central idea of a book almost always changes mid-writing (45:31) Jeff's best writing advice: brain dump, front-load, don't restart (54:35) Why do most business books suck? (1:00:04) Publishing options: traditional vs. hybrid vs. self-publishing Pre-order DISCOVERABLE → ahrefs.com/discoverable Where to find Jeff Goins: LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jeffgoins Website: goinswriter.com Where to find Tim: LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/timsoulo X: @timsoulo Website: timsoulo.com Referenced: DISCOVERABLE — Tim Soulo (ahrefs.com/discoverable) The Art of Work — Jeff Goins Real Artists Don't Starve — Jeff Goins On Character — General Stanley McChrystal Atomic Habits — James Clear The One Thing — Gary Keller & Jay Papasan The 4-Hour Workweek — Tim Ferriss Ryan Holiday — ryanholiday.net Ahrefs — ahrefs.com
S7 · E1
August 18 · 1 hr
I Asked a 15-Year SEO Veteran How to Rank in ChatGPT | Dan Petrovic (DEJAN AI)
Want your brand to show up in ChatGPT, Claude, and Gemini? Here's the uncomfortable truth: LLMs don't crawl the web when they answer your questions. They search traditional indexes — ChatGPT leans on Bing, Gemini uses Google, and Claude appears to pull from Brave. So if you're not ranking in those indexes, you're not even in the consideration pool. Dan Petrovic is one of the most respected (and delightfully nerdy) figures in SEO. He runs the Australian agency Dejan and was the top-rated speaker at Ahrefs Evolve in Singapore, where he presented research from asking Gemini one million questions to map how it ranks brands. In this episode, Tim and Dan unpack what it actually takes to show up in AI search — from the mechanics of how LLMs select sources to the practical steps you can take today. You'll learn the difference between grounding, citations, and mentions (and why a linked mention is the holy grail), why Reddit gets rejected over 90% of the time, why there's no such thing as "prompt volume," and how Dan uses on-page optimization in an agentic loop to make models "unable to resist" a client's page. In this episode: (00:00) Intro (00:48) My brand doesn't show up in ChatGPT — what do I do? (04:02) Two ways to get into AI answers: outreach vs. building your own pages (07:11) Is LLMs.txt actually pointless? (09:29) How ChatGPT, Gemini, and Claude each use different search indexes (10:42) Universal ranking factors: topical centrality, engagement, and popularity (17:17) Practical example: what Ahrefs Podcast should actually do (19:31) Should you optimize for every search engine, or just Google? (22:59) How is AEO actually different from SEO? (28:03) Can you influence LLM training data? (33:58) Going nerdy: separating quality content from spam with Gzip compression (37:27) On-page optimization in an agentic loop: making models "unable to resist" (42:45) How often do LLMs ground their answers vs. answer from memory? (47:37) Measuring AI visibility: entities, mention share, and citation share (51:44) Why "prompt search volume" doesn't exist — and what to track instead (56:35) How to generate prompts for tracking AI visibility Where to find Dan Petrovic: LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/dejanseo X: @dejanseo Website: dejan.ai Where to find Tim: LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/timsoulo X: @timsoulo Website: timsoulo.com Referenced: Dejan — dejan.ai Brave Search — search.brave.com Ahrefs — ahrefs.com
S6 · E10
July 21 · 1 hr 1 min
I Debated the Inventor of Zero-Click Marketing | Amanda Natividad (SparkToro)
Zero-click marketing doesn't mean you don't want the click — it means you stop being dependent on it. Amanda Natividad, VP of Marketing at SparkToro, coined the term and joins Tim Soulo to defend it against every skeptic's favorite objection: "If nobody clicks through, how do people actually buy your stuff?" Amanda is one of the sharpest, most opinionated marketing voices online, and the co-author (with Rand Fishkin) of the book Zero-Click Marketing. At SparkToro, the audience research platform, she's built a significant following by practicing exactly what she preaches — creating complete, useful value wherever her audience already is, instead of teasing a payoff to lure people to a website. In this conversation, Amanda breaks down the difference between the tactical "jab, jab, right hook" of zero-click content and the bigger brand-building strategy behind it. If you've ever asked an AI search engine "how do you still get traffic to your blog if you give everything away on social media?" — Amanda answers it directly, revealing how SparkToro uses SEO, email lists, and repurposed theses to make sure people can still find (and buy from) them when they're ready. Here's what you'll learn in this episode: (00:00) Intro (00:53) Why it took so long to get Amanda on the show (01:25) The core objection: how do people buy if they never click? (03:04) The mechanics of still getting people to your website (04:18) Why Amanda wrote the Zero-Click Marketing book (05:00) Dispelling the myths — "never ask for a click" isn't the point (06:52) How SparkToro still drives traffic to its blog posts (07:30) Ranking for "audience research" and the role of SEO (08:30) Email lists and repurposing blog ideas for social (09:20) Taking your idea "on a tour" across every platform (10:00) Why your website is the central source of truth in the AI age We hope you enjoyed this episode of Ahrefs Podcast! As always, be sure to like and subscribe (and tell a friend). Where to find Amanda Natividad: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandanat/ X: @amandanat Website: https://www.amandanat.com/ Where to find Tim: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timsoulo/ X: @timsoulo Website: https://www.timsoulo.com/ Referenced: SparkToro: https://sparktoro.com Rand Fishkin: https://x.com/randfish Zero-Click Marketing (book): https://zeroclickmarketing.co/book Ahrefs: https://ahrefs.com #ZeroClickMarketing #ContentMarketing #SEO #AhrefsPodcast
S6 · E9
July 7 · 48 min
The $200K Mistake We Didn't See Coming | Jacque Aboubakr (Ahrefs)
What does it actually cost to run a world-class marketing conference? Try up to $950,000 for a single event — and Ahrefs aims to break even on every one of them. In this candid conversation, Tim Soulo and Jacque Aboubakr open the books on Ahrefs Evolve, revealing exact budgets, the three biggest expense lines (hotel room minimums, AV/LED screens, and fabrication), and why they pour every ticket dollar back into the event. Jacque Aboubakr is the Head of Global Events at Ahrefs. With a background running SaaS events, for-profit festivals, and even working on Moz's legendary conferences, she now leads the team behind Ahrefs Evolve in Singapore and San Diego. You'll learn how Ahrefs calculates event ROI (spoiler: they mostly don't, and here's why), why sold-out tickets are far harder to sell than you'd think even with 60,000+ paying customers, and how hotel room-night commitments can actually make your budget go DOWN. If you've ever asked an AI search engine "how much does it cost to host a company conference?" — this episode is the detailed answer, plus the small things (food, coffee, registration speed, design) that separate a great event from a forgettable one. Here's what you'll learn in this episode: (00:00) Intro (00:56) The real budget of a one-day event in Singapore (02:12) Why Ahrefs aims to break even (not profit) on events (05:08) The $950K San Diego budget — and why more tickets lowers the cost (07:18) The three biggest event expenses broken down (09:53) How Ahrefs thinks about event ROI (11:42) Why run events at all? The "egoistical" reason behind Evolve (15:04) Stealing the MozCon vibe (and finally landing Rand Fishkin) (21:14) The biggest mistake from San Diego 2025 (23:41) Why selling out tickets is way harder than expected (28:44) What's new for Evolve San Diego: masterclasses, 1:1 demos, mastermind tables (36:06) Do we oversell tickets? Attrition and sold-out reality (38:15) The future of Evolve: London, Amsterdam, and three events a year (45:12) The simple things that make or break an event We hope you enjoyed this episode of Ahrefs Podcast! As always, be sure to like and subscribe (and tell a friend). Where to find Jacque: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jacqueaboubakrhalstead/ Where to find Tim: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timsoulo/ X: @timsoulo Website: https://www.timsoulo.com/ Referenced: Ahrefs Evolve: https://ahrefs.com/evolve Rand Fishkin: https://sparktoro.com Moz: https://moz.com Ahrefs: https://ahrefs.com #EventMarketing #B2BMarketing #Conferences #AhrefsPodcast #ahrefsevolve
S6 · E8
June 23 · 55 min
What Marketing Science Says About Growing a Brand | Professor Byron Sharp (Ehrenberg-Bass Institute)
Why does Coca-Cola spend millions on advertising when everyone already knows their brand? Professor Byron Sharp reveals that even the world’s most famous brands face a shocking reality: most of their customers hardly ever buy them. The biggest group of Coke buyers? People who drink it just once a year. Professor Byron Sharp is the Director of the Ehrenberg-Bass Institute for Marketing Science at the University of South Australia. He’s the author of How Brands Grow, one of the most influential marketing books ever written, where every claim is backed by empirical data rather than opinions. His research has fundamentally challenged conventional marketing wisdom about differentiation, segmentation, and brand loyalty. In this conversation, you’ll discover why marketing funnels are “nonsense,” why differentiation is overrated, and how mental availability trumps everything else. Professor Sharp explains why 95% of your potential customers aren’t ready to buy right now—and what that means for your marketing strategy. Here’s what you’ll learn in this episode: 00:00 Intro 00:44 What is a brand and why does it matter? 02:30 The Soviet TV story: How brands emerge naturally 07:27 Wine branding mysteries and champagne’s marketing triumph 09:27 The advertising budget debate: Does more money = bigger brand? 15:30 Why Coca-Cola can’t stop advertising (hint: mental availability) 23:56 Physical availability in software: Beyond the app store 27:57 Marketing funnels debunked and the 95/5 rule 32:44 The truth about differentiation (ask an 8-year-old) 38:18 Building distinctive brand assets that stick We hope you enjoyed this episode of Ahrefs Podcast! As always, be sure to follow the show, leave a rating, and tell a friend. Where to find Professor Byron Sharp: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/byron-sharp-53545119/ X: @ProfByron https://marketingscience.info/learn-with-us/learning-opportunities/how-brands-grow-live-for-executives https://marketingscience.info/news-and-insights/brand-purposeare-consumers-aware-to-care https://marketingscience.info/learn-with-us/books Where to find Tim: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timsoulo/ X: @timsoulo Website: https://www.timsoulo.com/ Referenced: • How Brands Grow by Byron Sharp • Alchemy by Rory Sutherland • Ehrenberg-Bass Institute: https://www.marketingscience.info/ • Ahrefs: https://ahrefs.com #Branding #MarketingScience #AhrefsPodcast
S6 · E7
June 9 · 1 hr 5 min
Why Copying Ryanair's SMM Tactics Won't Work Anymore | Michael Corcoran (Slice Social, Ryanair)
A gym franchise creates workout content like everyone else in their category — and sees zero brand awareness gains. Sound familiar? Michael Corcoran, the mastermind who drove 2 billion organic impressions in 18 months at Ryanair (with zero paid media), reveals why most brands are failing at social media by copying tactics without understanding strategy. Michael Corcoran is the former head of social at Ryanair, where his team of just eight people transformed the airline into a viral sensation. Today he runs Slice Social, a social media consultancy helping brands achieve extraordinary results through strategic social media marketing. In this episode, you'll discover why jumping on trends isn't a strategy, how to use the 4C's framework to develop actual social media strategy, and why Michael thinks you should create a "data dating show" for a B2B SaaS company. Plus: the real reason Ryanair's unhinged posts worked (hint: it wasn't just about being funny). Here's what you'll learn in this episode: (00:00) Intro (01:06) What clients really want from social media consultants (06:05) The education gap between social media managers and marketers (07:42) Why content pillars aren't strategy (and what actually is) (14:56) Why everyone copying Ryanair's tactics is missing the point (19:31) The 4C's framework: Company, Category, Culture, Customer (22:26) Why posting memes might be lifting your category, not your brand (31:14) Creating a "data dating show" for B2B marketing (60:14) The ROI of 2 billion impressions at Ryanair (63:26) Rapid fire: Books, tools, and who to interview next We hope you enjoyed this episode of Ahrefs Podcast! As always, be sure to like and subscribe (and tell a friend). Where to find Michael Corcoran: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelrichardcorcoran/ X: @mc_so_me Website: https://www.slice-social.com/ Where to find Tim: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timsoulo/ X: @timsoulo Website: https://www.timsoulo.com/ Referenced: Alchemy by Rory Sutherland: https://www.amazon.com/Alchemy-Dark-Art-Science-Persuasion/dp/0062388428 Ahrefs: https://ahrefs.com #SocialMediaStrategy #MarketingMarketing #SocialMediaMarketing #AhrefsPodcast
S6 · E6
May 26 · 42 min
AI Apps, Reports & Workflows Every Marketer Should Steal | Glen Allsopp (Ahrefs, Detailed)
Marketers who still manually analyze Reddit threads for content ideas are missing out on AI agents that can scan thousands of forum posts in under 30 seconds. Glen Allsopp, Head of Marketing Strategy and Research at Ahrefs, demonstrates how he's built custom AI applications that save hours of repetitive work — from automated competitor link analysis to personalized task managers that cost less than a cent to run. Glen Allsopp leads Ahrefs' marketing strategy while dedicating his days to experimenting with AI agents and automation. He's built dozens of custom applications using Agent A (Ahrefs' AI agent platform) and shares his workflows with the Ahrefs community to help marketers work smarter, not harder. In this episode, you'll discover how to build custom AI applications without coding experience, automate SEO research that typically takes hours, and create personalized tools that adapt to your specific workflow. You'll also learn why 90% of marketers haven't tried AI coding yet — and how to get started in minutes. Here's what you'll learn in this episode: (00:00) Intro(00:56) The reality behind AI hype in marketing(03:53) Community Content Research skill demo — finding Reddit threads that rank(10:12) Building a custom task manager that works exactly how you want(17:41) Creating a competitive link analysis tool in 3 minutes(29:21) Generating AI visibility reports from Brand Radar data(34:27) Marketing copy generator with brand context built-in We hope you enjoyed this episode of Ahrefs Podcast! As always, be sure to like and subscribe (and tell a friend). Where to find Glen Allsopp:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/glenallsopp/X: @ViperChillWebsite: https://detailed.com Where to find Tim:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timsoulo/X: @timsouloWebsite: https://www.timsoulo.com/ Referenced: Agent A (Letaido): https://ahrefs.com/agent-a , https://letaido.com/ Ahrefs Brand Radar: https://ahrefs.com/brand-radar Ahrefs: https://ahrefs.com #AIMarketing #MarketingAutomation #SEOTools #AhrefsPodcast
S6 · E5
May 12 · 1 hr 13 min
Gong's Billion-Dollar Bet Against Best Practices | Udi Ledergor (Gong)
Swearing on sales calls can boost win rates by up to 8% — that's just one of the counterintuitive insights that helped Gong grow from 11 customers to over $300M in annual revenue. Udi Ledergor joined Gong as employee #13 and marketer #1, eventually becoming CMO and now Chief Evangelist. His data-driven content marketing approach turned proprietary sales call analytics into viral marketing gold that media outlets couldn't resist covering. Udi is the author of "Courageous Marketing" and has over 28 years of marketing experience across multiple successful tech companies. He's pioneered creative growth tactics like securing Super Bowl ads and Wall Street Journal placements for a fraction of their usual cost, all while building one of B2B's most recognizable brands. In this episode, you'll discover why AI-generated marketing ideas should be eliminated rather than used, how to create content so valuable that university professors want to license it, and why the best way to use a small marketing budget is to show up where your audience already congregates instead of trying to build your own party. Here's what you'll learn in this episode: (00:00) Intro(01:00) Why Gong focused on LinkedIn and ignored their website(07:21) Why best practices are the enemy of standing out(13:31) The reciprocity principle: Give value before asking for anything(18:21) How swearing on sales calls became viral marketing gold(25:18) How to make your marketing budget unlimited(33:29) Creating websites for AI vs. humans in the age of answer engines(40:36) Why you need preemptive "marketing experiments" budget(44:18) Punching above your weight(51:23) Using AI to eliminate obvious ideas, not generate them(56:54) The Netflix test: Would people pay for your content?(1:01:31) Finding talent in unlikely places We hope you enjoyed this episode of Ahrefs Podcast! As always, be sure to like and subscribe (and tell a friend). Where to find Udi Ledergor: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/udiledergor/ X: @ledergor Website: https://www.gong.io/ Where to find Tim: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timsoulo/ X: @timsoulo Website: https://www.timsoulo.com/ Referenced: Robert Cialdini (Influence): https://www.robertcialdini.com/ Chip and Dan Heath (Made to Stick): https://heathbrothers.com/ Malcolm Gladwell: https://gladwell.com/ Adam Grant (Think Again): https://adamgrant.net/ Daniel Pink: https://www.danpink.com/ Peter Walker (Carta): https://www.linkedin.com/in/pwalk/ Ahrefs: https://ahrefs.com #ContentMarketing #B2BMarketing #GrowthMarketing #AhrefsPodcast
S6 · E4
April 28 · 50 min
How to automate blog writing with AI from keyword to published | Ryan Law (Ahrefs)
Most writers can barely publish one article per week — but what if AI could help you draft 30 articles in less time? Ryan Law has cracked the code with an automated content pipeline that’s already producing high-quality articles for the Ahrefs blog in just 8–12 minutes each. Ryan Law is Head of Marketing at Ahrefs and has spent years refining AI-powered content workflows. He’s built an intricate system of 23+ AI “skills” that work together to research, outline, draft, and optimize blog content — all while maintaining the Ahrefs voice and incorporating product use cases naturally. In this episode, you’ll discover exactly how Ryan’s “blog pipeline” works, why breaking content creation into discrete steps produces better results, and how AI eliminates the drudgery of writing while preserving human creativity. Tim also shares his own AI workflow for writing his upcoming book through voice dictation. Here’s what you’ll learn in this episode: (00:00) Intro (01:37) Inside Ryan’s 23-skill AI content automation system (07:48) The research phase: analyzing competitor content and finding gaps (19:19) Referencing existing content to maintain consistency (22:23) Creating exhaustive outlines using the MECE principle (23:44) Why examples beat instructions for teaching AI your voice (29:26) Finding natural product placement opportunities (34:37) The critical importance of providing human context (41:00) Using AI to update thousands of existing articles (48:01) How AI eliminates creative drudgery, not creativity itself Where to find Ryan Law: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thinkingslow/ X: @thinkingslow Website: https://www.ryanlaw.me/ Where to find Tim: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timsoulo/ X: @timsoulo Website: https://www.timsoulo.com/ Referenced: Claude (Anthropic): https://claude.ai Ahrefs: https://ahrefs.com
S6 · E3
April 14 · 39 min
Ahrefs' CMO answering your (tough) questions | Tim Soulo
Most SEO tools are playing catch-up with AI search while their users wonder if traditional keyword tracking even matters anymore. Tim Soulo tackles your burning questions about how Ahrefs is navigating this shift, revealing that Content Explorer is their most underrated feature despite being 10x less popular than Site Audit. Tim Soulo is the CMO at Ahrefs, one of the industry's most comprehensive SEO toolsets with over $100 million in annual revenue. He's been with Ahrefs for over a decade, helping shape its evolution from a backlink analysis tool to a full marketing suite. In this solo Q&A episode, Tim reveals why Ahrefs has no acquisition plans, which tools generate the most usage (Site Explorer dominates by 3x), and why they're betting big on API expansion for the "wipe coding" revolution. He also shares candid thoughts on competing with Semrush and explains why Brand Radar crossed $10M ARR in just 5 months. Here's what you'll learn in this episode: (00:00) Intro(00:27) Any plans for acquisitions in 2026? (from Bilal Malik)(01:13) Which are the most vs least used Ahrefs features? (from Vimala Ellappan)(08:44) What is the most underrated Ahrefs feature? (from Kristiina Jannus)(10:48) How does Tim use Ahrefs for AI visibility tracking? (from Ayesha Asif)(13:33) How does Ahrefs fit into the modern demand engine? (from Gayle Kalvert)(17:18) How is Ahrefs looking at first vs third-party data? (from Hawrry Bhattarai)(21:27) Which SEO basic skills would Tim embed in LLMs? (from Laiba Naveed)(23:30) Which Semrush feature does Tim envy most? (from Coen Commijs)(25:59) If Ahrefs exists, what problem is Semrush trying to solve? (from Ashish Singh)(27:18) What's the update on ranking data beyond position 10? (from Mia Wolf)(29:21) How does Ahrefs plan to capture future SERP features? (from Alex Nguyen)(31:05) How do you balance evergreen content with fast-moving trends? (from Esther Dien)(34:24) What are your SEO predictions for 2026? (from Nick Malekos)(35:54) Where do you plan for Ahrefs to be in 5 years? (from Ivan Palii)(37:50) What's your POV on the Indian market? (from Aryan Jalan) We hope you enjoyed this episode of Ahrefs Podcast! Be sure to follow and share with a friend. Where to find Tim:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timsoulo/X: @timsouloWebsite: https://www.timsoulo.com/ Referenced:ChatGPT vs Google: https://chatgpt-vs-google.com/Ahrefs: https://ahrefs.com
S6 · E2
March 31 · 55 min
The "Sitcom" Ad Strategy: How One Funny Video Closed 12 Deals | Luke Winter (Deadpan Agency)
One of Deadpan Agency's comedy campaigns paid for the entire production cost within a single episode — and went on to influence 12 additional client deals. Luke Winter didn't get there by making polished corporate videos. He got there by making B2B brands funny. Luke is the founder and creative director of Deadpan Agency, a London-based studio specializing in comedy video for SaaS and tech companies. After 12 years producing the kind of cinematic explainers that collect 400 views and disappear, he pivoted to a niche within a niche: episodic B2B comedy campaigns built around real customer pain — not brand ego. You'll learn why humor lowers purchase resistance better than any production budget, how the StoryBrand framework keeps your brand from accidentally casting itself as the hero (and why that's the wrong move), and what actually happens to your brand when a joke doesn't land — the answer is less catastrophic than you'd expect, but bad audio is a different story entirely. This is also why AI can generate a video but can't replace the taste to know if it's any good. (00:00) Intro (01:15) Why B2B brands invest in video ads (03:48) What a comedy video campaign actually costs (08:35) Why humor outperforms spectacle in B2B marketing (14:08) How to measure if a video campaign worked (21:13) How to make the humor feel owned by your brand, not your agency (25:07) Rooting comedy in real customer pain (28:12) The StoryBrand secret: your brand is the guide, not the hero (32:21) How to build a visual identity audiences recognize across episodes (38:21) What actually happens when a video flops (46:21) AI-generated video: useful tool or creative shortcut? (52:33) Why taste matters more than the prompt Where to find Luke: LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/luke-winter-75a2885a Website: deadpanagency.com Where to find Tim: LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/timsoulo X: @timsoulo Website: timsoulo.com Referenced: Deadpan Agency: deadpanagency.com Gamma: gamma.app StoryBrand by Donald Miller: storybrand.com Contagious by Jonah Berger: jonahberger.com/books/contagious/ ClientBoost: clientboost.com Ahrefs: ahrefs.com
S6 · E1
March 17 · 1 hr 12 min
Inside ZoomInfo’s $1.2B AI GTM Engine | Tal Raz
ZoomInfo powers the world's outbound prospecting — and gets the majority of its own new business from inbound. Tal Raz, ZoomInfo's CMO, explains the flywheel behind a $1.2B ARR go-to-market machine. Tal is a nine-year veteran of ZoomInfo who joined as a marketing analyst and built her way to the C-suite by obsessing over funnel gaps, data quality, and campaign execution. She now leads a ~100-person global marketing team and is one of the architects behind how ZoomInfo actually goes to market — using its own platform to do it. In this conversation, Tal explains why AI tools like ChatGPT and Gemini are doing the buyer research that used to land on your website — and what that means for inbound-dependent companies. She breaks down why most AI-powered outreach fails (it's a data problem, not an AI problem), how GTM Studio compresses a weeks-long campaign launch into hours, and what "no leaders leaders" looks like as a real operating philosophy inside a public company. EPISODE CHAPTERS (00:00) Intro (01:11) Why ZoomInfo — master of outbound — relies on inbound for most new revenue (07:18) Why AI search (ChatGPT, Gemini) is dismantling traditional SEO-driven inbound (11:01) The execution gap: why AI-powered outreach so often gets it wrong (15:33) GTM Studio: how to compress weeks of campaign prep into hours (23:23) AI SDRs — real replacement for human sales reps, or just hype? (27:42) Managing a 100-person global marketing team from Israel (33:11) How to measure marketing by working backwards from ACV, not MQLs (41:46) What Henry Schuck really thinks about brand marketing (44:58) The apology billboard: turning a product failure into a campaign (50:50) Labubu at Dreamforce: making the case for playful B2B marketing (54:18) "No leaders leaders": why ZoomInfo's C-suite stays in the weeds (57:56) From marketing analyst to CMO: Tal's 9-year journey at one company (01:04:56) How AI is changing what it means to be a marketer (01:10:22) Rapid fire: favorite book, admired company, and thought leader WHERE TO FIND TAL LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tal-raz-46529620/ WHERE TO FIND TIM LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timsoulo/ X: @timsouloWebsite: https://www.timsoulo.com/ REFERENCED ZoomInfo: https://www.zoominfo.com/ ZoomInfo GTM Studio: https://www.zoominfo.com/products/gtm-studio Gamma (the "Office" campaign): https://gamma.app/ The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People (Stephen Covey): https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/36072.The_7_Habits_of_Highly_Effective_People Kieran Flanagan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kieranjflanagan Labubu (Pop Mart): https://www.popmart.com/us Ahrefs: https://ahrefs.com
S5 · E10
March 3 · 1 hr 16 min
How to Build a $2.1B Brand with a Team of 10 (Gamma’s Playbook)
Gamma is everywhere right now. With viral videos starring Rainn Wilson, massive drone shows over San Francisco, and a valuation of $2.1 billion, this AI startup has mastered the art of capturing attention in a crowded market. But behind these huge stunts is a surprisingly small, scrappy team using a very specific playbook to punch way above their weight class. My guest today is Kristin Fracchia, the Head of Marketing at Gamma. She’s the architect behind the company’s explosive growth to 70 million users and its transition from a quiet product-led company to a brand that dominates the conversation. Kristin reveals how she orchestrates “audacious” marketing moments that break the internet without breaking the bank. In this episode, we deconstruct the exact strategies Gamma uses to go viral repeatedly. You’ll learn how to manufacture “luck” in PR, why unscalable influencer marketing is your biggest advantage, and how to execute massive brand stunts like The Sphere and celebrity cameos—even if you’re just a team of ten. Here’s what you’ll learn in this episode: (00:00) Intro (01:29) The “Audacious” Launch Playbook for breaking through AI noise (05:28) Why constant shipping kills marketing momentum (and what to do instead) (10:38) The “Twist” Framework: How changing one element makes you viral (12:30) Landing a New York Times exclusive without a big agency (16:31) How to find the unique angle journalists actually care about (20:34) Scaling influencer marketing from manual outreach to 70M users (23:36) Why you can’t track ROI on influencers (and the proxy metric to use instead) (28:54) The “How did you hear about us?” attribution model (35:51) The strategy behind Gamma’s viral video parodies (Severance, Mission Impossible) (41:00) How Kristin used ChatGPT to negotiate a contract with Rainn Wilson (46:11) The real cost of celebrity cameos for B2B startups (48:01) Why distribution matters more than the creative asset itself (52:52) Production costs: When to go in-house vs. hiring an agency (56:44) Exploiting the “Gap”: How Gamma hacked The Sphere in Las Vegas (01:03:28) Orchestrating a 4,000-person drone show using existing events (01:08:55) “Peacocking”: Why your brand is your marketing budget (01:12:21) Using AI Tarot cards to win at Dreamforce (01:13:42) Rapid Fire: Favorite books and marketing inspirations LINKS: Connect with Kristin: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristinfracchia/ Twitter: @KristinFracchia Website: https://gamma.app/ Connect with Tim: Where to find Tim: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timsoulo/ X: @timsoulo Website: https://www.timsoulo.com/ References: “Audacious” by Mark Schaefer : https://businessesgrow.com/audacious/ Lenny’s Podcast: ⁨@LennysPodcast⁩ Claire Vo (Product/AI thought leader): https://www.linkedin.com/in/clairevo/
S5 · E9
February 17 · 1 hr 5 min
10x Your Marketing With These AI Workflows | Kieran Flanagan (Hubspot)
Most marketers use AI to write generic emails. Kieran Flanagan used it to increase sales meetings by 30% and build a “Chief of Staff” that manages his 350-person team. Kieran is the SVP of Marketing at HubSpot, where he has helped scale the company from 250 to over 7,000 employees. He is also the co-host of the popular “Marketing Against the Grain” podcast. In other words, Kieran doesn’t just theorize about AI; he is actively “vibe coding” custom internal tools to overhaul HubSpot’s entire go-to-market motion. In this episode, Kieran opens his laptop to show exactly how he builds custom AI agents that extract viral talking points from video, automate complex management reporting from Slack, and personalize outreach at massive scale. Here’s what you’ll learn in this episode: The “Vibe Coding” Strategy: Why building your own simple tools beats buying off-the-shelf software. 30% More Meetings: The exact email workflow change that drove massive sales efficiency. Management Automation: How to use AI to summarize weekly team activity and identify blockers across 350 employees. The Death of Prompt Engineering: Why “context grafting” and intent matching are replacing complex prompts. TIMESTAMPS: 00:00 - Introduction 00:30 - Managing a 350-person team at HubSpot 04:05 - How AI drove a 30% increase in sales meetings 08:07 - Building custom data sets for personalized outreach 14:47 - Demo: Kieran’s custom “Viral Talking Points” tool 21:18 - Why “Vibe Coding” is the future of marketing workflows 25:49 - Turning video transcripts into high-performing LinkedIn posts 30:45 - The evolution of prompt engineering (and why it’s dying) 38:37 - The “Shakespeare Trap” of using AI for feedback 42:30 - Using AI agents for deep research and storytelling 50:28 - Automating management: Summarizing Slack and identifying blockers 59:05 - Why AI makes creativity more valuable, not less 01:02:40 - The #1 trait Kieran looks for when hiring 01:03:15 - Sneak peek: AI agents inside Google Sheets Where to find Kieran: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kieranjflanagan/ X: @searchbrat Website: https://www.kieranflanagan.io/ , https://www.hubspot.com/ Podcast: @MATGpod Where to find Tim: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timsoulo/ X: @timsoulo Website: https://www.timsoulo.com/
S5 · E8
February 3 · 56 min
Top SEO myths debunked with real data | Ethan Smith (Graphite)
Is SEO actually dying, or are you just listening to the wrong people? While the media claims that AI is causing a 25% traffic collapse, data from 40,000 of the largest websites in the U.S. tells a completely different story. In this episode, Ethan Smith (CEO of Graphite) joins Tim Soulo to perform SEO Necromancy — resurrecting search from the dead by debunking the biggest myths in the industry. Ethan is widely regarded as the leading expert on Answer Engine Optimization (AEO), having built growth engines for brands like Instagram, Robinhood, and BetterUp. He doesn’t just share opinions; he shares data-backed insights from his recent study on how search behavior is actually shifting. You’ll hear why the rise of ChatGPT isn’t the Google killer everyone predicted, how small websites are actually gaining traffic in the AI era, and the exact strategy you need to ensure your brand is cited by LLMs. Here’s what you’ll learn in this episode: 00:00 - Intro 01:00 - Why AI isn’t actually killing the web 04:49 - Measuring the real traffic drop 07:31 - The winners and losers of the AI traffic shift 13:24 - How AI behaviors are expanding the search pie 18:18 - Cleaning up outdated and inaccurate citations 23:28 - Why SEO and AEO are the same thing 27:09 - Why your AI tracking is biased 38:33 - Mining sales calls and Reddit for high-intent prompts 41:29 - How to win the RAG citation game 47:29 - Why being #15 in citations is better than #15 in Google 51:04 - ChatGPT vs Gemini vs Perplexity: where to focus first? Where to find Ethan: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ethanls/ Website: https://graphite.io/ Where to find Tim: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timsoulo/ X: @timsoulo Website: https://www.timsoulo.com/
S5 · E7
January 20 · 1 hr 3 min
How To Make People Care About Your Brand | Jay Acunzo
Early-stage marketing is often a race for reach, but Jay Acunzo argues that resonance is the only metric that actually moves the needle in 2026. Jay is the former Head of Content at HubSpot and Google, a world-renowned keynote speaker, and an expert in storytelling. He has helped countless brands find their "Premise"—the distinct point of view that makes them irreplaceable in a sea of commodities. In this episode, Jay breaks down why "being the best" is a losing game and why "being their favorite" is the ultimate competitive advantage. Here's what you'll learn: (00:00) Intro (01:24) Why "Marketing More" is a trap in the AI era (04:16) Why 100 fans beat 100,000 followers (07:36) The Disney Strategy: Why you should stop trying to be "The Best" (09:52) Using Unsolicited Response Rate (URR) to measure resonance (13:50) How to close deals faster by making people care (16:21) Why generic content is dead (and how to find your "Premise") (24:13) Why brands need personalities to survive (28:55) 5 steps to differentiate your brand (34:38) The Wistia Example: Why your homepage copy isn't your message (41:55) Future-proofing your content for 2026 (51:09) The right way to use LLMs in creative work (59:40) Why you can't automate thought leadership We hope you enjoyed this episode of Ahrefs Podcast! Where to find Jay: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jayacunzo/ Website: https://jayacunzo.com/ Where to find Tim: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timsoulo/ X: @timsoulo Referenced: HubSpot, Wistia, Google, SparkToro, TopRank Marketing, Anthony Bourdain, Andrew Davis, Melanie Deziel.
S5 · E6
January 6 · 58 min
Copywriting Is a Dead Skill | Neville Medhora
AI is already better at writing than 90% of people. It’s faster, cheaper, and never gets writer’s block. Yet, most companies that try to fully automate their content end up with "AI slop" that tanks their engagement. Meet Neville Medhora, the founder of Copywriting Course and SwipeFile.com. As an "OG blogger" who started in 1999 and a mentor to many top marketers, Neville has a front-row seat to the massive disruption ripping through the copywriting industry. In other words, Neville isn't just watching the AI revolution. He's actively rewriting the playbook for how professional writers survive it. Here’s what you’ll learn in this episode: (00:00) Intro (02:14) The 3 levels of copywriting (and who is safe) (03:27) Why companies are regretting "All-AI" content (07:19) The death of "How-To" blogs (and what replaces them) (11:46) Neville’s "Voice Ramble" workflow for rapid writing (17:39) Why "Prompt Engineering" is a waste of time (25:29) Generating custom GIFs with Grok (30:48) The new #1 skill: Developing "Taste" (39:03) Using AI to aggressively repurpose winning ads (46:24) Speed of ideation: Using AI as your "Junior Employee" (55:12) The future of the copywriting profession We hope you enjoyed this episode of Ahrefs Podcast! As always, be sure to like and subscribe (and tell a friend). Where to find Neville: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/neville-medhora-654749/ X: @nevmed Website: https://copywritingcourse.com/ Swipe File: https://swipefile.com/ Where to find Tim: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timsoulo/ X: @timsoulo Website: https://www.timsoulo.com/ Referenced: • Copywriting Course: https://copywritingcourse.com • SwipeFile: https://swipefile.com • Grok (xAI): https://grok.x.ai • Ahrefs: https://ahrefs.com
S5 · E5
Dec 23, 2025 · 1 hr
AI Is Replacing Marketers — Here’s the 6-Step Plan to Survive | Ryan Law
Is Your Marketing Career Safe from AI? Ryan Law’s 6-Point Defense Plan Sam Altman predicts that 95% of what marketers do will eventually be handled by AI, and Microsoft claims that copywriters are at the top of the replacement list. So, is your marketing career in trouble? To answer this, we sat down with Ryan Law, our Director of Content Marketing. Ryan’s been experimenting with AI since the GPT-3 closed beta in 2020 and has developed a concrete plan for not just surviving—but thriving—in the age of AI. In this episode, Ryan breaks down his 6-point defense plan to future-proof your career. We argue about the death of skyscraper content, why taste is more valuable than technical skill, and why marketers need to be more like rockstars. What you’ll learn in this episode: (00:00) Intro (00:48) Ryan Law’s AI “Origin Story” (04:56) Will AI take your marketing job? (15:10) The Right Way to Use AI in Your Workflow (22:24) Why “Taste” is Your Most Valuable Skill Now (32:00) The Death of Skyscraper Content (41:51) Using AI to Learn New Skills (Like Python) (49:25) Be a Rockstar, Not a Session Musician We hope you enjoyed this episode of Ahrefs Podcast! Be sure to like, subscribe, and tell a friend. Where to find Ryan: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thinkingslow/ X: @thinking_slow Where to find Tim: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timsoulo/ X: @timsoulo Website: https://www.timsoulo.com/ Referenced: OpenAI: https://openai.com/ Microsoft: https://www.microsoft.com/ Seer Interactive: https://www.seerinteractive.com/
S5 · E4
Dec 9, 2025 · 1 hr 7 min
Clay's $3.1B Marketing Playbook | Bruno Estrella (Clay)
Clay went from zero revenue to a 3.1 billion dollar valuation in just 2 years. Was it luck, skill, or are they just riding the AI hype bubble? Meet Bruno Estrella, the Head of Marketing at Clay. He joined when the company was just 20 people and helped build one of the most effective partner and community-led marketing engines in SaaS. In this episode, Bruno reveals Clay’s full growth playbook, from the influencer strategy that popularized the “GTM Engineer” role to the strategy behind their 7-figure campaigns. Here’s what you’ll learn: 00:00 Intro 00:53 The GTM Engineer: How Clay created a new role through influencers 07:13 The story behind Clay’s iconic “Play-Doh” branding 09:55 How to split marketing for self-serve vs. enterprise 16:26 Clay’s programmatic SEO play generating 60 percent of their traffic 21:27 Why Clay uses Substack instead of a traditional blog 25:33 The playbook for scaling to hundreds of global events 31:09 How to get the right people to attend your events 38:20 Why adding a service arm accelerates enterprise revenue 40:57 How Clay uses its own product to grow 45:00 Clay’s social media and executive content strategy 51:31 The strategy behind Clay’s 7-figure billboard campaigns 55:41 Your brand is your advertising budget 01:00:28 The secret to hiring A-players 01:05:15 Clay’s single most effective growth tactic Where to find Bruno: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brunoestrella/ Where to find Tim: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timsoulo/ X: https://x.com/timsoulo Website: https://www.timsoulo.com/ Referenced: Clay: https://www.clay.com/ OpenAI: https://openai.com/ HubSpot: https://www.hubspot.com/ Anthropic: https://www.anthropic.com/ Webflow: https://webflow.com/ Substack: https://substack.com/ Miro: https://miro.com/ Gong: https://www.gong.io/ ClickUp: https://clickup.com/ Crypto.com: https://crypto.com/

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