5-4

The Innocence Case from Hell with Josie Duffy Rice

Friend of the pod Josie Duffy Rice joins Peter and Michael to talk about her new podcast, The Backfire Effect. Her show digs into the case of Temujin Kensu, a man sentenced to life in prison for the murder of Scott Macklem. Has the wrong man been in prison this whole time? Listen to The Backfire Effect wherever you get your podcasts. If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this episode ad-free and listen to Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support. 5 to 4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Allison Rodgers. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social. Our Sponsors: * Check out Mint Mobile and use my code mintmobile.com/fivefour for a great deal: https://www.mintmobile.com * Check out Quince and use my code quince.com/FIVEFOUR for a great deal: https://www.quince.com Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

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National Park Service v. National Trust for Historic Preservation

We have to let the President build a ninety thousand square feet of ballroom. If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this episode ad-free and listen to Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support. 5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Alli Rodgers. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at fivefourpod.com Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social. Our Sponsors: * Check out Mint Mobile and use my code mintmobile.com/fivefour for a great deal: https://www.mintmobile.com * Check out Quince and use my code quince.com/FIVEFOUR for a great deal: https://www.quince.com Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

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John Roberts is on Substack, U.S. Attorneys are Fake, and the DNC is a Scam [TEASER]

Peter, Rhiannon, and Michael dig into some recent headlines including plans to ban halal food in Texas, John Roberts’ Substack debut, the disturbing truth behind DNC spam texts, and more. Check out Adam Bonica’s investigation here. If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support. 5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Alli Rodgers. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at fivefourpod.com Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social. Our Sponsors: * Check out Mint Mobile and use my code mintmobile.com/fivefour for a great deal: https://www.mintmobile.com * Check out Quince and use my code quince.com/FIVEFOUR for a great deal: https://www.quince.com Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

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NRSC v. FEC

Yet another opinion where the Supreme Court decides that money is speech and bribery doesn’t exist without a big sack of money. If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support. 5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Andrew Parsons. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at fivefourpod.com Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social. Our Sponsors: * Check out Mint Mobile and use my code mintmobile.com/fivefour for a great deal: https://www.mintmobile.com * Check out Quince and use my code quince.com/FIVEFOUR for a great deal: https://www.quince.com Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

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Trump v. Slaughter (and Trump v. Cook)

Executive agencies are fake by the way… If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support. 5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Alli Rodgers. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at fivefourpod.com Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social. Our Sponsors: * Check out Mint Mobile and use my code mintmobile.com/fivefour for a great deal: https://www.mintmobile.com * Check out Quince and use my code quince.com/FIVEFOUR for a great deal: https://www.quince.com Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

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Gambling Away the Future: Kalshi, SCOTUSBlog, and Trump’s Bet on the Midterms [SUBSCRIBER-ONLY]

Peter, Rhiannon, and Michael take a break from case law to discuss the possibility of stolen midterms, the evil lawyers defending Kalshi and Polymarket, and SCOTUSBlog’s subtle conservative makeover. If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support. 5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Alli Rodgers. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at fivefourpod.com Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social. Our Sponsors: * Check out Mint Mobile and use my code mintmobile.com/fivefour for a great deal: https://www.mintmobile.com * Check out Quince and use my code quince.com/FIVEFOUR for a great deal: https://www.quince.com Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

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Mullin v. Doe

It’s not racist to think, act, and talk like a racist. If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support. 5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Alli Rodgers. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at fivefourpod.com Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social. Our Sponsors: * Check out Mint Mobile and use my code mintmobile.com/fivefour for a great deal: https://www.mintmobile.com * Check out Quince and use my code quince.com/FIVEFOUR for a great deal: https://www.quince.com Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

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West Virginia v. B.P.J.

The Supreme Court backs West Virginia in banning it's only openly trans student athlete from the girls cross country team. If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, get access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support. 5 to 4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Allison Rodgers. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Our Sponsors: * Check out Mint Mobile and use my code mintmobile.com/fivefour for a great deal: https://www.mintmobile.com * Check out Quince and use my code quince.com/FIVEFOUR for a great deal: https://www.quince.com Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

The Legal Media is Still in Denial [SUBSCRIBER-ONLY]

Peter, Rhiannon, and Michael take a hard look at media coverage of this Supreme Court term. Thank you to our wonderful subscribers. 5 to 4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Allison Rodgers . Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social. Our Sponsors: * Check out Mint Mobile and use my code mintmobile.com/fivefour for a great deal: https://www.mintmobile.com * Check out Quince and use my code quince.com/FIVEFOUR for a great deal: https://www.quince.com Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

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Trump v. Barbara

Birthright citizenship, widely considered settled law before Trump tried to overturn it via executive order last year, escaped this term unscathed by one single vote. Peter, Rhiannon, and Michael explore the various mental illnesses, brainworms, and ahistorical nonsense that led to such a close decision. If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support. 5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Alli Rodgers. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at fivefourpod.com Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social. Our Sponsors: * Check out Mint Mobile and use my code mintmobile.com/fivefour for a great deal: https://www.mintmobile.com * Check out Quince and use my code quince.com/FIVEFOUR for a great deal: https://www.quince.com Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

250 Years of Bad Decisions: SCOTUS, the Civil War, and the End of Reconstruction

In honor of America’s birthday, join Peter, Rhiannon, Michael and University of Pennsylvania Law Professor Kermit Roosevelt as they talk through how the Supreme Court greased the wheels for the end of Reconstruction and the rise of Jim Crow. Check out Kermit’s book The Nation That Never Was: Reconstructing America’s Story. If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support. 5 to 4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Allison Rodgers. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social. Our Sponsors: * Check out Mint Mobile and use my code mintmobile.com/fivefour for a great deal: https://www.mintmobile.com * Check out Quince and use my code quince.com/FIVEFOUR for a great deal: https://www.quince.com Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

“The Most Destructive Chief Justice in My Lifetime”: Dissecting John Roberts with Lisa Graves

Rhiannon interviews Lisa Graves – right‑wing influence expert, former Justice Department official, co‑host of Legal AF, and founder of True North Research – about her latest book, Without Precedent: How Chief Justice Roberts and His Accomplices Rewrote the Constitution and Dismantled Our Rights. Check out Without Precedent here! If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support. 5 to 4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Allison Rodgers. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social. Our Sponsors: * Check out Mint Mobile and use my code mintmobile.com/fivefour for a great deal: https://www.mintmobile.com * Check out Quince and use my code quince.com/FIVEFOUR for a great deal: https://www.quince.com Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

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The Supreme Court v. The First Step Act

In two cases this term, federal inmates sought their freedom based on compassionate release, an early release process that was expanded under the 2018 First Step Act. The Supreme Court denied both requests. If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support. 5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Alli Rodgers. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at fivefourpod.com Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social. Our Sponsors: * Check out Mint Mobile and use my code mintmobile.com/fivefour for a great deal: https://www.mintmobile.com * Check out Quince and use my code quince.com/FIVEFOUR for a great deal: https://www.quince.com Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

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Reform the Court and Your Love Life (Summer 2026 Mailbag) [TEASER]

The 5-4 team dreams up a bigger, better Supreme Court, gives advice to overachieving undergrads and late-blooming law students, and clears up confusion about Rhiannon’s finances. Thanks for all of your questions, and for being a Premium member! 5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Alli Rodgers. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at fivefourpod.com Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social. Our Sponsors: * Check out Mint Mobile and use my code mintmobile.com/fivefour for a great deal: https://www.mintmobile.com * Check out Quince and use my code quince.com/FIVEFOUR for a great deal: https://www.quince.com Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

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California v. Greenwood

Raccoons are the police now. If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support. 5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Alli Rodgers. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at fivefourpod.com Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social. Our Sponsors: * Check out Mint Mobile and use my code mintmobile.com/fivefour for a great deal: https://www.mintmobile.com * Check out Quince and use my code quince.com/FIVEFOUR for a great deal: https://www.quince.com Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

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Immigration and Naturalization Service v. Chadha

In 1983, the Supreme Court declared the legislative veto unconstitutional, forever kneecapping Congress’ ability to check the executive branch. Now you have to learn about bicameralism and presentment. If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support. 5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Alli Rodgers. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at fivefourpod.com Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social. Our Sponsors: * Check out Mint Mobile and use my code mintmobile.com/fivefour for a great deal: https://www.mintmobile.com * Check out Quince and use my code quince.com/FIVEFOUR for a great deal: https://www.quince.com Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

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Introducing: OnlyFantasy (Leon's New Podcast)

In this provocative investigation into OnlyFans— the adult platform where subscribers around the world spent more than $7 billion in 2024— the guy who reads the intros on 5-4 teams up with comedian and OnlyFans creator Gracie Canaan for a one-of-a-kind exploration into the current state of human connection. Captivating and tender, OnlyFantasy is about the cost of loneliness, the seductive power of desire, and how the rules of human intimacy are being rewritten online. Is what’s happening on OnlyFans real? Or is it only a fantasy? Find OnlyFantasy wherever you get your podcasts, or binge all episodes ad-free on Audible. Our Sponsors: * Check out Mint Mobile and use my code mintmobile.com/fivefour for a great deal: https://www.mintmobile.com * Check out Quince and use my code quince.com/FIVEFOUR for a great deal: https://www.quince.com Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

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The People v. MrBeast [TEASER]

We made 3 legal podcasters watch Mr. Beast and now they think he’s the antichrist. If you're not a Patreon member, you're not hearing every episode! To get exclusive Patreon-only episodes, discounts on merch, access to our Slack community, and more, join at patreon.com/fivefourpod. 5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Alli Rodgers. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at fivefourpod.com Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social. Our Sponsors: * Check out Mint Mobile and use my code mintmobile.com/fivefour for a great deal: https://www.mintmobile.com * Check out Quince and use my code quince.com/FIVEFOUR for a great deal: https://www.quince.com Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Louisiana v. Callais

The end of the Voting Rights Act, brought to you by the Supreme Court. If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support. 5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Alli Rodgers. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at fivefourpod.com Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social. Our Sponsors: * Check out Mint Mobile and use my code mintmobile.com/fivefour for a great deal: https://www.mintmobile.com * Check out Quince and use my code quince.com/FIVEFOUR for a great deal: https://www.quince.com Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

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Brecht v. Abrahamson

You have the right to remain silent. Unless you are a gay ex-con from Wisconsin. Then you’re a Bad Boy™. If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support. 5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Alli Rodgers. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at fivefourpod.com Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social. Our Sponsors: * Check out Mint Mobile and use my code mintmobile.com/fivefour for a great deal: https://www.mintmobile.com * Check out Quince and use my code quince.com/FIVEFOUR for a great deal: https://www.quince.com Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

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