The Pie: An Economics Podcast

Becker Friedman Institute at UChicago

Economists are always talking about The Pie – how it grows and shrinks, how it’s sliced, and who gets the biggest shares. Join host Tess Vigeland as she talks with leading economists from the University of Chicago about their cutting-edge research and key events of the day. Hear how the economic pie is at the heart of issues like the aftermath of a global pandemic, jobs, energy policy, and more.

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20 episodes
Updated July 21

Episodes20

Newest first

July 21 · 27 min
Passing the Pop Quiz: How Nursing Homes Predict Inspections, and What It Costs Patients
In the United States, regulators inspect nursing homes to ensure compliance with quality, safety, and other standards. While these inspections are not technically announced, they are easy for nursing home staff to predict because they usually occur annually. In this episode of The Pie, Maggie Shi, an assistant professor at the University of Chicago's Harris School of Public Policy, discusses how this predictability affects nursing homes' effort levels, and, in turn, resident health.
July 7 · 42 min
AI and Early Childhood Development: The Importance of Human Interaction
At a time when forty percent of American two-year-olds have their own tablet, a new generation of AI toys and chatbots is being marketed as a better alternative to screens. On this episode, Dana Suskind, pediatric cochlear implant surgeon, co-director of the TMW Center for Early Learning and Public Health, and author of the new book Human Raised, explains the importance of human interaction for children's brain development.
June 23 · 29 min
Signal and Noise: Why Politics Is About Culture When Voters Want Economics
Voters consistently say they care most about the economy — jobs, wages, inflation, the price of gas. So why are campaigns so often fought over culture? In this episode, Konstantin Sonin, the John Dewey Distinguished Service Professor at the University of Chicago Harris School of Public Policy and co-director of BFI's Political Economics Initiative, walks host Tess Vigeland through his theory of "multi-dimensional signaling." Because economic policy is too complex for voters to fully decode, they read a candidate's cultural stances as a proxy for what that candidate will do economically, and politicians exploit it.
June 9 · 47 min
How Should Parents Respond When Grades are Good, But Test Scores are Bad?
When a child brings home good grades but low standardized test scores, which signal should parents pay attention to? In this episode, Ariel Kalil of the UChicago Harris School of Public Policy discusses new research showing that parents lean heavily on grades, and high grades often crowd out the extra help low test scores would otherwise prompt. With pandemic learning losses disguised by inflated grades, Kalil discusses how this dynamic may mean that struggling kids aren't getting the support they need.
May 26 · 25 min
Tied to the Job: The Gains from Permanent Residency
When immigrant workers come to a country on a visa tied to a single employer, what is it worth to be free to switch jobs? In this episode, Chicago Booth economist Matt Notowidigdo discusses new research using Canadian administrative data to track temporary foreign workers when they gain permanent residency. Job-switching rates jump 21.7 percentage points and earnings rise 5.7 percent within three years, driven largely by workers sorting into higher-paying firms across industries.
May 5 · 58 min
Life as a Lab: John List on the Art and Ethics of Field Experiments
Have you taken a Lyft, shopped at Walmart, or used Facebook in the last decade? If so, you've likely been a participant in one of John List's experiments. In this episode of The Pie, List, Professor of Economics and Director of the Becker Friedman Institute, returns to discuss his new 900-page textbook, Experimental Economics: Theory in Practice — the field guide he wishes he'd had as he pioneered the use of real-world experiments to figure out what moves human behavior across policy and business. From a Wisconsin baseball-card table in 1985 to the White House, Lyft, and Walmart, List shares the lessons, mistakes, and ethical questions that have shaped three decades of discovery.
April 28 · 1 hr 17 min
Wealth of Institutions: Randall Kroszner on Why Markets Stayed Calm While the Fed Came Under Fire
Earlier this year, former Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen warned that political pressure on the Federal Reserve could turn the U.S. into "a banana republic." And yet long-term interest rates, inflation expectations, and the dollar have shown a remarkably muted reaction to President Trump's public pressure on Chair Jerome Powell. Why? In this episode of The Pie, Randall Kroszner, Norman R. Bobins Professor of Economics at Chicago Booth and a former Federal Reserve Governor during the 2008 financial crisis, argues that markets are staying calm because they trust the institutional guardrails around the Fed, which include the courts, the Senate, and Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent. Recorded live at UChicago as part of BFI's Wealth 250 campaign marking the 250th anniversary of Adam Smith's The Wealth of Nations, Kroszner walks through the market data and draws on his time inside the Fed during the global financial crisis to explain the difference between independence and accountability.
April 21 · 58 min
A Conversation with Raghuram Rajan: Corporate Governance, Community, and Political Economy
In this Extra Slice of The Pie, guest host Ben Krause sits down with Raghuram Rajan, Katherine Dusak Miller Distinguished Service Professor of Finance at Chicago Booth, for a wide-ranging conversation on everything from what 25,000 CEO letters reveal about corporate America's shift from maximizing shareholder value to prioritizing customers and employees, to why communities matter as much as markets and the state, the political equilibrium that determines whether societies thrive or collapse, how inequality drove the 2008 financial crisis, and why AI could create catastrophic outcomes without better support for workers. Rajan reflects on his path from observing development gaps as a child to prescient warnings about financial crises, explains why modern firms are fundamentally about managing power struggles between stakeholders, and makes the case for "inclusive localism," or, empowering communities while keeping borders open to competition.
April 14 · 24 min
The Uneven Promise of School Choice: Who Applies vs. Who Benefits
When public school districts offer options like magnet schools and dual-language programs, families who are richer, whiter, and higher-achieving are more likely to opt in. Meanwhile, students who would benefit most are least likely to apply. In this episode, Chicago Booth economist Chris Campos explains why the participation architecture of school choice matters as much as the quality of the schools themselves, and why information campaigns alone aren't enough to close the gap.
March 31 · 43 min
The War in Iran: Oil, Cyber Warfare, and Alliances
On February 28, the US and Israel launched airstrikes against Iran. Four weeks later, the conflict shows no signs of ending. Iran has blocked the Strait of Hormuz, taking roughly 10% of global oil supply off the market. Energy prices have spiked to levels not seen since the 1970s, and Iran continues to strike US allies using drones, cyber attacks, and other tactics. In this panel recorded at the Harris School of Public Policy, three University of Chicago experts, Ryan Kellogg on energy markets, Paul Poast on military alliances, and Jake Braun on cyber policy, discuss why the US struck now, why European allies have been reluctant to join, and why there's no clear exit from the conflict. For more on the event: https://harris.uchicago.edu/news-events/news/operation-epic-fury-and-problem-undefined-war
March 17 · 49 min
The Geography of Human Capital: Why Rich Regions Stay Rich
People in the Netherlands average nearly 11 years of schooling, compared to about 2.5 for those in the Central African Republic. Why don't these gaps close? In this episode, Esteban Rossi-Hansberg of the University of Chicago explains recent research that divides the entire globe into more than 16,000 grid cells to study the costs of acquiring human capital, and how these valuable skills drive economic development.
March 12 · 48 min
Eugene Fama on 60 Years of Finance Research, Index Funds, and Market Efficiency
If you have money in an index fund, you are benefiting from Eugene Fama's work. In this Extra Slice of The Pie, the Nobel laureate and "father of modern finance" reflects on a career that reshaped how trillions of dollars are invested, including his development of the Efficient Market Hypothesis, which provides the theoretical foundation for passive investing.
March 3 · 47 min
The Transformation of Capitalism: 250 Years After Adam Smith
Two hundred fifty years after The Wealth of Nations, capitalism looks nothing like Adam Smith imagined (and nothing like Karl Marx predicted, either). Smith envisioned small, decentralized producers, while Marx foresaw concentration dominated by the rich. In this lecture, Yueran Ma of Chicago Booth draws on centuries of global data to show how production concentrated while ownership diffused, and the giants at the top keep getting toppled.
February 17 · 21 min
Laboratories of Autocracy: What Happens When China Shuts Down Its Policy Experiments
The common perception of Chinese governance is a strong, centralized state. For decades, however, the vast majority of the country's policies originated with local governments, as officials experimented, competed, and copied each other's successes. In this episode, Shaoda Wang of Harris Public Policy describes his research analyzing 3.7 million government documents to trace the origin and diffusion of Chinese policies, revealing the economic costs of the country's shift toward centralized policymaking.
February 3 · 29 min
Who Really Paid for the Tariffs? Brent Neiman on Liberation Day's Economic Aftermath
Who bore the cost of 2025's sweeping tariffs? UChicago economist Brent Neiman returns to The Pie to discuss his new research with co-author Gita Gopinath examining the effects of last year's tariffs. Neiman reveals a gap between statutory rates and what was actually collected, explains why US importers absorbed the vast majority of costs, and discusses China's dramatic collapse as a US trading partner. He also explores the longer-term implications, including potential retaliation, shifting global alliances, and diplomatic costs that may outlast any short-term revenue gains.
January 20 · 44 min
Venezuela After Maduro: What Comes Next?
Days after the Trump administration's surprise military operation captured Venezuelan leader Nicolás Maduro, a panel of UChicago scholars gathered to make sense of what it means for Venezuela, the United States, and the region. Professor Christopher Blattman, Deputy Dean Ryan Kellogg, and Associate Professor Paul Poast join moderator Rebecca Wolfe to discuss Venezuela's decline from one of the hemisphere's wealthiest nations, the regional migration crisis that followed, and the uncertain road ahead.
January 13 · 1 hr 6 min
Why Banks Exist and Why They Fail: Douglas Diamond on Runs, Regulation, and the Risks of Short-Term Debt
Financial crises are "everywhere and always" a problem of short-term debt. In this Extra Slice of The Pie, Nobel laureate Douglas Diamond explains his groundbreaking research on why banks exist in the first place, and why they're vulnerable to runs. Diamond discusses his role advising policymakers during the 2008 crisis, reflects on predicting the savings and loan disaster as a graduate student in the 1970s, and explains why the 30-year mortgage is like Michael Corleone: something good that went bad when it hung around with the wrong crowd.
January 6 · 44 min
At What Age Does Family Income Most Shape Your Future? Timing and Intergenerational Mobility
Standard measures of intergenerational mobility treat parental income as a single average across childhood. In this episode, Steven Durlauf, Frank P. Hixon Distinguished Service Professor at the Harris School of Public Policy and Director of the Stone Center for Research on Wealth Inequality and Mobility, describes how parental income during the tween and adolescent years (ages 12-18) is far more predictive of adult outcomes than parental income during early childhood.
Dec 23, 2025 · 34 min
The Pie, Wrapped: Innovation, Faith, Purpose, and Market Power
As we close out 2025, host Tess Vigeland highlights research from UChicago scholars. Hyuk Su Kwon, Assistant Professor at the Harris School of Public Policy, explains the design of electric vehicle subsidies. Eduardo Montero, Assistant Professor at Harris, reveals how Seventh Day Adventist churches adapt when members face costly trade-offs between faith and farming. Virginia Minni, Assistant Professor at the Booth School of Business, shares how a one-day purpose workshop where workers connect childhood passions to their current roles drives measurable productivity gains. Plus, Leo Bursztyn discusses why green text bubbles create lock-in effects for Apple. Full versions of these conversations are available wherever you get your podcasts.
Dec 16, 2025 · 1 hr 50 min
A Conversation with Roger Myerson: Harmonicas, Xenophon, and Why Your Mayor Matters More Than You Think
In this wide-ranging conversation, Nobel Prize–winning economist Roger Myerson reflects on a career studying how rules shape human behavior, from optimal auction design to Ukraine's decentralization reforms. Myerson explains the foundations of mechanism design and incentive constraints, tracing economics back to Xenophon and arguing that local democracy is what holds democracies together.

The Pie: An Economics Podcast

Passing the Pop Quiz: How Nursing Homes Predict Inspections, and What It Costs Patients

AI and Early Childhood Development: The Importance of Human Interaction

Signal and Noise: Why Politics Is About Culture When Voters Want Economics

How Should Parents Respond When Grades are Good, But Test Scores are Bad?

Tied to the Job: The Gains from Permanent Residency

Life as a Lab: John List on the Art and Ethics of Field Experiments

Wealth of Institutions: Randall Kroszner on Why Markets Stayed Calm While the Fed Came Under Fire

A Conversation with Raghuram Rajan: Corporate Governance, Community, and Political Economy

The Uneven Promise of School Choice: Who Applies vs. Who Benefits

The War in Iran: Oil, Cyber Warfare, and Alliances

The Geography of Human Capital: Why Rich Regions Stay Rich

Eugene Fama on 60 Years of Finance Research, Index Funds, and Market Efficiency

The Transformation of Capitalism: 250 Years After Adam Smith

Laboratories of Autocracy: What Happens When China Shuts Down Its Policy Experiments

Who Really Paid for the Tariffs? Brent Neiman on Liberation Day's Economic Aftermath

Venezuela After Maduro: What Comes Next?

Why Banks Exist and Why They Fail: Douglas Diamond on Runs, Regulation, and the Risks of Short-Term Debt

At What Age Does Family Income Most Shape Your Future? Timing and Intergenerational Mobility

The Pie, Wrapped: Innovation, Faith, Purpose, and Market Power

A Conversation with Roger Myerson: Harmonicas, Xenophon, and Why Your Mayor Matters More Than You Think