The Helicopter Podcast

Halsey Schider

Welcome to The Helicopter Podcast, with your host Halsey Schider! This podcast is for helicopter pilots, maintainers, and enthusiasts! Whether you've been in the industry for 30 years or are just someone that loves helicopters, this podcast is for you! The podcasts will feature guests from a wide array of industry sectors to have casual conversation, answer questions, give sound advice, and talk shop. Finally, a podcast produced by helicopter professionals for all types of helicopter people!

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20 episodes
Updated Tuesday

Episodes20

Newest first

Tuesday · 1 hr 3 min
Episode #188: The Human Side of Helicopter EMS | Graham Ritter
Send us Fan Mail Welcome to The Helicopter Podcast, brought to you by Vertical HeliCASTS! In this episode, Halsey Schider sits down with longtime friend and fellow Air Evac Life Team pilot Graham Ritter for a conversation that goes far beyond flying helicopters. The two reflect on their time training together at Air Evac and how their careers, families, and perspectives have evolved over the years. Along the way, they discuss the realities of helicopter EMS, the impact those missions can have on patients and crews, and the moments that remind pilots why the work matters. The conversation also explores topics that are often difficult to discuss in aviation, including stress, anxiety, emotional resilience, and the importance of strong leadership. Graham shares how mentors and supervisors helped shape his approach to both flying and life, while Halsey reflects on the growing need for more open conversations around mental health within the industry. At its core, this episode is a candid discussion about the people behind the profession—the friendships, challenges, and lessons that continue to shape pilots long after training is over. Thank you to this episode's sponsors, Hillsboro Heli Academy, Metro Aviation and Airbus
July 27 · 1 hr 2 min
Episode #187: Leadership Lessons from Precision Helicopters | Mark Paulson & Ty Burlingham
Send us Fan Mail Welcome to The Helicopter Podcast, brought to you by Vertical HeliCASTS! In this episode, Halsey Schider sits down with Ty Burlingham, chief pilot, and Mark Paulson, director of maintenance at Precision, to discuss what it takes to grow a successful helicopter operation while maintaining the culture and standards that got you there. Ty shares his unconventional path into aviation, from studying at Oregon State University to discovering helicopters through an introductory flight that changed the direction of his career. He reflects on the transition from line pilot to leading a team of more than 30 pilots, the importance of professional development, and why investing in leadership is just as critical as developing flying skills. Mark brings the maintenance perspective, explaining the responsibilities of overseeing an expanding fleet and the systems required to keep aircraft safe, reliable, and productive. From managing component life limits and maintenance schedules to supporting aircraft in the field, he highlights how communication between pilots, mechanics, and leadership is essential to minimizing downtime and maximizing operational success. Together, they discuss Precision's evolution from a small, family-style operation into a larger organization, the challenges of preserving company culture as new employees join the team, and why strong relationships across every department remain one of the company's greatest strengths. Whether you're a pilot, maintainer, or aviation leader, this episode offers valuable insights into building an operation where people, culture, and communication are every bit as important as the aircraft themselves. Thank you to this episode's sponsors, Hillsboro Heli Academy, Sirius XM and Airbus.
July 23 · 40 min
Bonus Episode: Air Angels | The Helicopter Community That Answered Hurricane Helene
Send us Fan Mail Welcome to The Helicopter Podcast, brought to you by Vertical HeliCASTS! When Hurricane Helene devastated parts of the southeastern United States, entire communities were cut off by flooding, landslides, and destroyed infrastructure. In those critical first days, civilian helicopter pilots from across the country stepped up to deliver supplies, rescue stranded residents, and support relief efforts where few others could. Halsey sits down with Valerie Smaldone and Monty Hobbs of Just Do Good Entertainment, Jason Quinn of The Real ResQ podcast, and David Smith, CEO of Robinson Helicopter Company, to discuss the making of Air Angels, the incredible volunteer response from the helicopter community, and why these stories of service deserve to be preserved. Together, they discuss how private pilots, volunteers, and ground crews organized an extraordinary relief effort, why helicopters proved to be one of the most effective tools during the crisis, and the countless people whose selfless actions made a difference when it mattered most. More than a film about helicopters, Air Angels is a story about community, compassion, and the unique role our industry can play when people come together to help those in need. It's a powerful reminder that some of aviation's greatest missions happen far from the spotlight—and that behind every helicopter is a team of people willing to answer the call. Thank you to this episode's sponsors, Robinson Helicopter and Sellacopter. Links to the Real ResQ Podcast episodes mentioned. #201 Matt McSwain & Andy Petree #202 Volunteer Rally for Hurricane Helene #203 Marty Quinn Hurricane Helene Experience #204 Volunteer Pilot Experience during Helene #205 USCG Volunteer after Hurricane Helene #206 Inside Disaster Response | Bob Pasquale #259 Erica Zangwill & Dr. Craig McCotter from Air Angels Other episodes from The Helicopter Podcast covering the Hurricane Helene response. #98 Operation Helo | Eric Robinson #144 Heroic efforts of civilian helicopters | Pat Harrigan
July 21 · 1 hr
Episode #186 Why Business Aviation Needs Better Advocates | Ian Lumpp
Send us Fan Mail Welcome to The Helicopter Podcast, brought to you by Vertical HeliCASTS! In this episode, Halsey Schider sits down with Ian Lumpp, executive sales director at GlobalAir.com, to discuss the role business aviation plays in the broader aviation ecosystem and the challenges the industry faces moving forward. Ian shares insights from his involvement with the National Business Aviation Association (NBAA), highlighting the importance of educating policymakers, industry stakeholders, and the public about the value business aviation provides. The conversation explores common misconceptions surrounding the industry, including perceptions around environmental impact and the role business aircraft play in supporting organizations and communities. They also discuss advocacy efforts within aviation, the importance of engaging with lawmakers and regulators, and how innovation—from sustainable aviation fuel to advancements in aircraft design—continues to shape the future of the industry. This episode is a thoughtful look at why aviation needs strong advocates, how the industry can better tell its story, and what lies ahead for business aviation in an increasingly complex operating environment. Thank you to this episode's sponsors, Metro Aviation, Robinson Helicopter and Sellacopter.
July 14 · 49 min
Episode #185: Developing the Next Generation of Long-Line Pilots | Andre & Kimberly Hutchings
Send us Fan Mail Welcome to The Helicopter Podcast, brought to you by Vertical HeliCASTS! In this episode, Halsey Schider sits down with Andre and Kimberly Hutchings, co-founders of Volo Mission, to discuss what it takes to develop skilled external load pilots and build a culture of safety, leadership, and continuous learning. Drawing on decades of experience in helicopter operations and training, Andre and Kimberly share their perspectives on the unique demands of long-line and external load work, where precision, situational awareness, and teamwork are critical to success. The conversation explores the path many pilots take into utility flying, the importance of mastering the fundamentals, and why technical proficiency alone is not enough to excel in demanding operational environments. They also discuss the role of mentorship, leadership, and communication in developing the next generation of pilots, along with the importance of creating training environments that prepare aviators for real-world challenges rather than simply meeting minimum standards. This episode is a thoughtful look at the craft of external load flying and the people responsible for passing those skills on, highlighting why strong leadership, disciplined training, and a commitment to safety remain at the heart of successful helicopter operations. Thank you to this episode's sponsors, Helicopter Institute, Precision Aviation Group, and Robinson Helicopter.
July 7 · 1 hr 1 min
Episode #184: Why Strong Pilot-Maintenance Relationships Matter | Keith Moreland
Send us Fan Mail Welcome to The Helicopter Podcast, brought to you by Vertical HeliCASTS! In this episode, Halsey Schider sits down with Keith Moreland of Rotorcraft Services Group (RSG) to discuss the relationships, communication, and leadership principles that help keep aviation operating safely and effectively. Drawing on decades of experience supporting operators across the helicopter industry, Keith shares why strong pilot-maintenance relationships are built on trust, responsiveness, and a shared commitment to safety. The conversation explores the importance of open communication, understanding the challenges faced by both pilots and maintainers, and why collaboration is essential to successful operations. They also discuss the value of professional relationships in an industry where reputations travel quickly and connections often span continents. Keith reflects on the importance of being available when operators need support, while sharing lessons learned from years of building trust with customers, colleagues, and industry partners. The discussion also turns to leadership, mentorship, and the responsibility of developing teams that can thrive long after individual leaders move on. From eliminating single points of failure to sharing knowledge and creating opportunities for others to grow, Keith offers practical insights into building resilient organizations. This episode is a reminder that while aircraft and technology continue to evolve, strong relationships, clear communication, and trusted teams remain at the heart of aviation. Thank you to this episode's sponsors, Hillsboro Heli Academy, Airbus and Helicopter Institute.
June 23 · 1 hr 5 min
Episode #183: The Importance of Quality Maintenance | Joe LaRue
Send us Fan Mail Welcome to The Helicopter Podcast, brought to you by Vertical HeliCASTS! In this episode, Halsey Schider sits down with Joe LaRue of Prairie Air, recorded at Verticon 2026, to talk about how the rotorcraft industry is evolving at the operator level. Joe shares his path into aviation and how that led to building Prairie Air into a maintenance and operations-focused business centered around Robinson helicopters. The conversation highlights the importance of quality maintenance, record-keeping, and long-term support—and how those details directly impact safety and aircraft value. They also discuss the growing need for workforce development and what it takes to bring new pilots and mechanics into the industry. Joe outlines his work with local schools and community programs, and why creating access and awareness is critical for the future. The conversation also touches on emerging technology, including autonomous aircraft, and how those tools may fit into real-world operations rather than replace them. This episode is a practical look at how operators are balancing tradition, technology, and people to move the industry forward. Thank you to this episode's sponsors, Robinson Helicopter, Precision Aviation Group and Sellacopter
June 16 · 52 min
Episode #182: How Heli Austria Built a Global Helicopter Operation | Roy Knaus
Send us Fan Mail Welcome to The Helicopter Podcast, brought to you by Vertical HeliCASTS! In this episode, Halsey Schider sits down with Roy Knaus of Heli Austria to discuss the company's journey from a small family operation to one of Europe's most established helicopter operators. Roy shares the history of Heli Austria, founded by his father in the 1980s, and reflects on the growth that has taken the company from a fleet of just three helicopters to nearly 40 aircraft supporting a wide range of missions. The conversation explores how the company has expanded beyond Austria into international markets, including operations in Iceland and Chile, while maintaining a focus on safety, customer service, and operational excellence. They also discuss the realities of growing a helicopter business, building strong local partnerships, navigating different regulatory environments, and creating opportunities in sectors ranging from HEMS and firefighting to utility work and heli-skiing. Throughout the conversation, Roy offers lessons learned from decades in the industry, emphasizing adaptability, continuous learning, and the importance of building a motivated team capable of taking on new challenges. This episode is a look at what it takes to grow a helicopter company over the long term and how strong partnerships, vision, and persistence can create opportunities far beyond where the journey began. Thank you to this episode's sponsors, Enstrom Helicopter Corporation, Airbus and Hillsboro Heli Academy.
June 9 · 51 min
Episode #181: 65 Years of Enstrom Helicopters | Todd Tetzlaff
Send us Fan Mail Welcome to The Helicopter Podcast, brought to you by Vertical HeliCASTS! In this episode, host Halsey Schider sits down with Todd Tetzlaff, senior vice-president of regulatory affairs and global relations at Enstrom Helicopter, to talk about how a legacy manufacturer continues to adapt in today’s market. Todd shares perspective on Enstrom’s long history in the industry and what it takes to stay relevant, from navigating an increasingly complex certification environment, to supporting operators in the field. The conversation highlights ongoing efforts to strengthen relationships with service centers and maintenance, repair and overhaul shops, and why that support network is critical to long-term success. They also discuss Enstrom’s push to expand in Europe, including the challenges of entering a market with established competitors and different regulatory expectations. Todd breaks down how certification, infrastructure, and local partnerships all play a role in making that growth possible. This episode is a look at what it takes to sustain and grow a helicopter manufacturer over time—and how experience, support, and adaptability continue to shape the path forward. Thank you to this episode's sponsors, Metro Aviation and Enstrom Helicopter.
May 31 · 1 hr 22 min
Episode #180: From Army Rangers to 160th SOAR | Ryan Walters
Send us Fan Mail Welcome to The Helicopter Podcast, brought to you by Vertical HeliCASTS! In this episode of The Helicopter Podcast, Halsey Schider sits down with Ryan Walters to talk about his path from Army Ranger to pilot in the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment. Ryan shares how his time in the Ranger Regiment shaped his perspective early on, and how working alongside the 160th during that period ultimately influenced his decision to transition into aviation through the warrant officer program. After seeing those crews operate up close, the goal became clear—get in the front seat. The conversation focuses on the realities of that transition, the demands of training, and the standard required to operate in a unit built around precision and consistency. Ryan also reflects on the level of performance he witnessed in the field, where training, preparation, and trust in the team allowed people to do extraordinary things under pressure. This episode is a look at what it takes to move into high-level aviation roles—and how the right environment, mindset, and team can shape what’s possible. Thank you to this episode's sponsors, Airbus, Hillsboro Heli Academy and Robinson Helicopter.
May 26 · 1 hr 1 min
Episode #179: Guest #1 Returns! | Sean Moretz on Networking and Memorable Flights
Send us Fan Mail Welcome to The Helicopter Podcast, brought to you by Vertical HeliCASTS! In this episode of The Helicopter Podcast, Halsey Schider sits down with Sean Moretz—returning as the show’s very first guest more than 170 episodes later. Sean talks through how his role as a designated pilot examiner (DPE) has shaped his career, and how relationships built early in aviation tend to come full circle over time. Through that work, he’s stayed closely connected to pilots at key moments in their progression, reinforcing the importance of mentorship and staying engaged in the industry. The conversation reflects on how both Sean’s perspective and the industry itself have evolved since that first episode. They also revisit early days in flight instruction, the challenge of building confidence in new pilots, and the lessons that come from learning on the job. This episode is a look at how experience builds over time—what changes, what doesn’t, and why the people in this industry matter just as much as the flying. Thank you to this episode's sponsors, Precision Aviation Group and Sellacopter.
May 19 · 1 hr 14 min
Episode #178: The MD 500 Training Advantage | JD Parsons
Send us Fan Mail Welcome to The Helicopter Podcast, brought to you by Vertical HeliCASTS! In this episode of The Helicopter Podcast, Halsey Schider sits down with JD Parsons of Colorado Highland Helicopters to talk about a different approach to flight training. JD shares his path from trucking entrepreneur to helicopter operator, and how that background shaped the way he thinks about flight school. The conversation focuses on challenging traditional training models, including his use of the MD 500 as a primary training aircraft and a strong emphasis on high-altitude, scenario-based flying. They dig into the realities of student retention, the importance of building confidence without ego, and how real-world mission profiles—like search and rescue or utility work—can better prepare pilots from the start. JD also discusses safety culture, decision-making under pressure, and why open communication in the cockpit is critical to long-term success. This episode is a practical look at how training can evolve to better reflect real-world operations—and what it takes to build safer, more capable pilots from day one. Thank you to this episode's sponsors, Airbus, Hillsboro Heli Academy and Robinson Helicopter.
May 12 · 1 hr 6 min
Episode #177: Burnout and Stepping Back in Aviation | Jesse Munns
Send us Fan Mail Welcome to The Helicopter Podcast, brought to you by Vertical HeliCASTS! In this episode of The Helicopter Podcast, Halsey Schider sits down with Jesse Munns, founder of Awakened, Iron and Soul, to talk about career transitions, mental health, and the realities of stepping back in aviation. Jesse shares his experience working in HEMS, describing the buildup of fatigue and burnout that led to a moment where he recognized he couldn’t keep going at the same pace. The conversation centers on what it actually looks like to make that call, how it impacts your career, and why those decisions are often avoided in aviation. They also dig into the broader issue of mental health in the industry—why it’s still difficult to talk about, how it’s often misunderstood, and the gap in support for pilots dealing with stress, anxiety, or burnout. Jesse explains how his work now focuses on helping aviation professionals navigate those transitions and rebuild with a healthier foundation. This episode is an honest discussion about recognizing limits, making difficult decisions, and changing how the industry approaches mental health and career longevity. Thank you to this episode's sponsors, Airbus, Sellacopter and Robinson Helicopter.
May 3 · 48 min
Episode #176: HEMS Safety, Data, and Decision-Making | Steve Soliz of Bell
Send us Fan Mail Welcome to The Helicopter Podcast, brought to you by Vertical HeliCASTS! In this episode of The Helicopter Podcast, Halsey Schider sits down with Steve Soliz from Bell to discuss the evolving landscape of helicopter emergency medical services. Steve brings a global perspective to the conversation, breaking down how HEMS operations are adapting through advancements in avionics, autopilot systems, and data-driven mission planning. The discussion focuses on how these tools are reducing pilot workload while improving situational awareness and overall mission safety. They also explore the differences between North American and European EMS operations, including how regulatory environments, aircraft selection, and medical protocols are shaped by data and operational constraints. Steve highlights the importance of crew resource management, emphasizing how communication and trust between pilots and medical crews play a critical role in preventing incidents and managing risk. This episode is a grounded look at how technology, human factors, and decision-making continue to shape safer, more effective EMS operations worldwide. Thank you to this episode's sponsors, Hillsboro Heli Academy, Precision Aviation Group and Metro Aviation.
April 28 · 1 hr 5 min
Episode #175: Beyond Drones: Building Aviation Networks | Cory Vinger - The Helicopter Podcast
Send us Fan Mail Welcome to The Helicopter Podcast, brought to you by Vertical HeliCASTS! In this episode of The Helicopter Podcast, Halsey Schrader sits down with Cory Vinger to talk about the evolution of drone technology—and where his focus is shifting next. Cory shares his path from aerospace engineering and flight training into the early days of unmanned aviation, building experience in utility inspections as drone capabilities advanced from basic imaging to tools like LiDAR, infrared, and corona detection. The conversation highlights how those technologies are now supporting more proactive, data-driven approaches to infrastructure maintenance. They also dig into Cory’s current work with AerHub and their new app Aerway, a new aviation-focused networking platform designed to connect professionals across flight operations, maintenance, and leadership. The discussion centers on the role of networking in aviation, how most opportunities are built through relationships, and the need for a more focused, professional digital space. This episode bridges where the industry has been with where it’s going—both in how we inspect infrastructure, and how we connect as professionals within it. Thank you to this episode's sponsors, Enstrom Helicopter, Hillsboro Heli Academy and Airbus.
April 21 · 1 hr 23 min
Episode #174: Fighter Pilot Lessons, Backcountry Flying, and a Water Ditching | Steve Cox - The Helicopter Podcast
Send us Fan Mail Welcome to The Helicopter Podcast, brought to you by Vertical HeliCASTS! In this episode of The Helicopter Podcast, Halsey Schider sits down with Steve Cox, fighter pilot, airline pilot, and creator of the Cleared Direct YouTube channel, for a wide-ranging conversation about aviation, risk, and the lessons learned from real-world flying. Steve shares the path that led him from military fighter jets to airline operations and into the world of experimental and backcountry aviation. Along the way, he discusses the discipline required to operate high-performance aircraft, the appeal of building and flying experimental airplanes, and the mindset pilots need to manage risk in demanding environments. The conversation also explores the role of storytelling in aviation safety. Steve explains why sharing experiences — including mistakes and close calls — helps pilots build mental models that improve decision-making long before a real emergency occurs. That philosophy becomes especially real as Steve recounts a dramatic water ditching and the rapid decisions that allowed him and his passenger to walk away safely. It’s a powerful reminder that preparation, training, and a strong safety culture remain essential in every corner of aviation. Thank you to this episode's sponsors Robinson Helicopter, Quantum Helicopters and Enstrom Helicopter.
April 14 · 50 min
Episode #173: From Greenland Operations to Mountain Flying Safety | Simon Whitinger – The Helicopter Podcast
Send us Fan Mail Welcome to The Helicopter Podcast, brought to you by Vertical HeliCASTS! In this episode of The Helicopter Podcast, recorded live at European Rotors 2025 in Cologne, host Halsey Schider sits down with helicopter pilot and author Simon Whitinger for a wide-ranging discussion about operations, training, and knowledge sharing in the helicopter community. The conversation opens with Simon’s flight training and career pathways, including Simon’s flight training experiences in Canada, the challenges of transitioning to EASA certification, and the crucial role that networking and industry events like European Rotors play in building professional connections across the helicopter community. They then turn to Simon's experience flying in Greenland, where helicopters often serve as essential transportation between remote villages, support medevacs, and connect people across challenging terrain. Halsey and Simon explore how these real-world operations shape a pilot’s decision-making and perspective. Finally, they focus on Simon’s Mountain Flying Handbook, a resource developed to address the gap in structured safety knowledge around mountain operations. Drawing on decades of experience in mountainous environments, Simon explains why hazards such as whiteout and unmarked cables remain leading contributors to accidents, and how pilots can prepare to recognize and mitigate these risks. Buy Simon's book, The Mountain Flying Handbook. Be sure to use promo code "Sellacopter". Thank you to our sponsors Hillsboro Heli Academy, Precision Aviation Group and Airbus.
April 7 · 1 hr 3 min
Episode #172: Safety, Drones, and the Future of Robinson Helicopters – The Helicopter Podcast
Send us Fan Mail Welcome to The Helicopter Podcast, brought to you by Vertical HeliCASTS! In this episode of The Helicopter Podcast, recorded at Verticon 2026, Halsey Schider sits down with David Smith, ceo of Robinson Helicopters, and Paul Fermo, president of Robinson Unmanned, to discuss safety, innovation, and where the industry is heading next. The conversation opens with a look at recent safety improvements across the helicopter industry, including lower accident rates and the continued focus on training for inadvertent IMC. David and Paul highlight how tools like cockpit cameras and scenario-based training are helping pilots better understand risk and make more informed decisions in the moment. They also explore Robinson’s evolving product strategy — from utility-focused updates like the R44 interior to broader efforts to meet changing customer needs. A major focus is the launch of Robinson Unmanned and the company’s investment in drone technology, signaling a shift toward a more integrated future across crewed and uncrewed aviation. Blending safety, technology, and long-term strategy, this episode offers insight into how Robinson is adapting to a changing market while staying grounded in its core mission: building practical, reliable aircraft for real-world operations. Thank you to this episode's sponsors, Metro Aviation, Quantum Helicopters and Robinson Helicopter.
March 24 · 1 hr
Episode #171: François Lassale, of VAI on Safety and Pilot Decision-Making - The Helicopter Podcast
Send us Fan Mail Welcome to The Helicopter Podcast, brought to you by Vertical HeliCASTS! In this episode of The Helicopter Podcast, recorded at Verticon 2026, Halsey Schider sits down with Francois Lassale, president and ceo of Vertical Aviation International, for a first conversation on leadership, safety culture, and decision-making in aviation. The discussion opens with Halsey sharing a formative lesson from his early flying career — the importance of knowing when to say no. In an industry where mission pressure is real, the ability to make the right call can be one of the most critical skills a pilot develops. Francois builds on that idea from a leadership perspective, emphasizing that true safety culture goes beyond policies and procedures. It’s about creating teams that consistently make the right decisions, even when no one is watching. He shares a personal example from outside aviation, where wearing proper motorcycle safety gear likely saved his life in a serious accident — reinforcing the idea that safety is a mindset carried into every aspect of life. The conversation also touches on communication, training, and how organizations can better support pilots in making sound decisions under pressure. Together, they highlight that safety isn’t just taught — it’s modeled, reinforced, and lived daily. A thoughtful discussion on leadership, accountability, and building a culture where doing the right thing is the standard. Thank you to this episode's sponsors, Helicopter Institute, Robinson Helicopter and Vertical Aviation International.
March 17 · 50 min
Episode 170: Scenario-Based Training and Future of Safety | Glen White – The Helicopter Podcast
Send us Fan Mail Welcome to The Helicopter Podcast, brought to you by Vertical HeliCASTS! Recorded live at European Rotors 2025, this episode of The Helicopter Podcast features a conversation between Halsey Schider and Glen White from EuroSafety about helicopter training, safety culture, and the growing European market. The conversation begins with Europe’s expanding role in the global helicopter industry and the unique dynamics shaping training and operations across the region. From private owners to commercial operators, the market presents different challenges — and different expectations — around professionalism and safety culture. Glen shares insights from his work with Loft Dynamics, (interviewed at European Rotors last year), explaining how scenario-based simulation is changing the way pilots prepare for real-world emergencies. Instead of relying solely on rote memory, modern training puts pilots in realistic situations where decision-making matters — especially during inadvertent entry into instrument meteorological conditions (IIMC) and system malfunctions. They also discuss skill fade, complacency, and why continuous practice is essential in helicopter operations. From private owners to commercial crews, professionalism and safety culture remain central to the industry’s future. A focused conversation on training for the unexpected — and building safer pilots in the process. Thank you to our sponsors Hillsboro Heli Academy, Vertical Aviation International and Airbus.