The Cellar Door Podcast

Tom Massey

Join lawyer/wine explorer, Tom Massey, in the Cellar Door to hear the stories of the people and wineries in the wonderful world of wine. Tom is joined by winery owners, wine makers and other wine personalities to hear and share their stories, the stories of the wineries and the stories of the wines. It's a podcast about where it all came from and where it's all going.

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20 episodes
Updated July 25

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Episodes20

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July 25 · 31 min
There Is No Such Thing as the Wine Market
Send us Fan Mail Most conversations about wine start with a simple assumption: that there is such a thing as the wine market. Joe Fattorini argues that's completely wrong. In this episode, we unpack why treating wine as a single market leads to poor marketing, poor positioning, and missed opportunities. Drawing on examples from around the world, Joe explains why the most successful wine businesses don't try to sell to everyone—they understand exactly who they're selling to, why those people buy, and what problem they're really solving. Whether you're a winery owner, marketer, retailer, or simply fascinated by how brands succeed, this conversation is packed with practical insights into segmentation, positioning, consumer behaviour, and the future of wine marketing. Here's my conversation with Joe Fattorini. Support the show
July 18 · 1 hr 5 min
200 Years of Excellence: Inside the Sydney Royal Wine Show
Send us Fan Mail For most wine drinkers, a wine show is something that happens in the background. A medal on a bottle. A trophy announced at an awards dinner. A score that helps guide a purchasing decision. But behind those medals sits one of the most important institutions in Australian wine. This year, the Sydney Royal Wine Show celebrates an extraordinary milestone: 200 years since wine was first included in the competitions of what would become the Royal Agricultural Society of New South Wales. Over those two centuries, the show has helped benchmark quality, foster excellence, train future judges, and contribute to the development of the Australian wine industry. Few people understand that world better than Sally Evans. A long-serving Councillor of the Royal Agricultural Society of New South Wales, former Steward-in-Chief, former Chair of the Sydney Royal Wine Committee, and one of the Sydney Royal's most passionate advocates, Sally has spent decades helping shape and support one of Australia's most respected wine competitions. In this conversation, we explore the history of the Sydney Royal Wine Show, how wine judging actually works, what happens behind the scenes during judging week, and why wine shows continue to matter in an increasingly competitive wine market. Most importantly, we discuss the role wine shows play in bringing people together, sharing knowledge, encouraging excellence, and helping shape the future of Australian wine. So, as the Sydney Royal Wine Show celebrates its bicentenary and prepares for the Sydney Royal 200 Symposium, please enjoy my conversation with Sally Evans. Support the show
July 11 · 44 min
Seeing Ghosts: Who Really Controls Australian Wine?
Send us Fan Mail This episode welcomes back Ed Cavanagh — wine writer, historian, policy researcher, and author of the forthcoming book Crushed: The Hand of Government on the Australian Wine Industry. Ed has spent the last several years digging into the policies, regulations, and market forces that have shaped Australian wine, and his latest paper examines the controversial topic of : ghost labels. Ghost labels are wine brands created and owned by major retailers rather than independent wineries. On their own, they're not necessarily a problem. The wine may be well made and fairly priced. But Ed argues that ghost labels are a symptom of a much bigger issue — the growing concentration of power within Australia's wine retail sector. In this conversation, we explore how Coles and Woolworths came to dominate so much of the liquor market, why Ed distinguishes between a duopoly and a duopsony, and what that concentration of buying and selling power means for wineries trying to compete. Drawing on decades of industry history, Senate inquiries, ACCC investigations, and competition policy, Ed asks a challenging question: have we become so focused on issues like oversupply, exports, and changing consumer tastes that we've overlooked the role market concentration plays in shaping the fortunes of Australian wine? It's a fascinating discussion about economics, competition, public policy, and ultimately the future of the Australian wine industry. Here's my conversation with Ed Cavanagh. A massive thanks for joining me on the CDP. Support the show
July 4 · 40 min
Navigating Wine Distribution's Commercial Minefield - with Will Taylor
Send us Fan Mail For many wineries, making great wine is only half the challenge. The other half is getting that wine into the hands of consumers. Behind every bottle that finds its way onto a restaurant wine list, an independent retailer's shelf, or a national distribution network sits a commercial relationship that most wine drinkers never see. And when those relationships work well, they can help build brands, grow businesses, and create long-term success. When they don't, the consequences can be costly. My guest today is Will Taylor, Senior Partner at Finlaysons and one of Australia's leading wine industry lawyers. Over the past three decades, Will has advised wineries, distributors, grapegrowers, and wine businesses through some of the industry's most significant commercial challenges. In this episode, we're diving into the world of wine distribution agreements. We explore why these contracts matter, the common mistakes wineries make when entering distribution relationships, the risks of relying on handshake deals, how disputes arise, and why a well-drafted agreement can be one of the most valuable tools a wine business has. Here's my conversation with Will Taylor. A huge thanks to Will for joining me. Support the show
June 27 · 44 min
The Greatest Marketing Story Ever Bottled? Professor Kathy Burk on How France Conquered Wine
Send us Fan Mail For centuries, France has occupied a unique place in the world of wine. Its vineyards, classifications, language, and traditions have shaped how we think about fine wine, from Bordeaux and Burgundy to concepts like terroir and appellation. But how did French wine come to dominate the global imagination? And was that dominance really built on superior wine, or on something else entirely? My guest today is historian Kathy Burk. Kathy is Professor Emerita of Modern and Contemporary History at University College London, an acclaimed author, broadcaster, and one of the world's leading historians of economic and cultural history. In this conversation, we explore the rise of French wine, the role of England in creating the reputation of Bordeaux, the significance of the 1855 Classification, the origins of concepts like terroir and chaptalisation, and how the famous 1976 Judgment of Paris challenged centuries of French supremacy. Along the way, Kathy takes us from the Stone Age to modern California, revealing how trade, politics, empire, religion, and marketing helped shape the wine world we know today. And where better to begin than at the very beginning. Here is Kathy Burk. Support the show
June 20 · 1 hr 9 min
Keeping the Faith: Charlie and Sophie Melton on Brand, Legacy and the Future of a Barossa Icon
Send us Fan Mail For more than four decades, Charles Melton has been one of the defining voices of the Barossa Valley. His journey stretches from the wine glut of the 1980s, through the rise of modern Australian wine, to the creation of one of the country's most recognisable labels. I recently had the pleasure of sitting down at the Charles Melton winery on Krondorf Road with Charles Melton and his daughter Sophie Melton, the next generation helping to shape the future of the family business. We discuss brand, authenticity, family, and the challenge of remaining relevant in an industry that has changed dramatically over the last fifty years. Charles reflects on his early days in the industry, surviving the industry's darkest periods, and developing a brand that today enjoys a loyal following across multiple generations. Sophie shares what it is like to inherit that legacy, and how she is finding her own voice as a winemaker through her Domaine Sophie Claire label. Together, they explore the power of story in wine, the importance of place, the realities of today's wine market, and why the strongest brands are often built not through marketing campaigns, but through decades of genuine human connection. Whether you're interested in the history of the Barossa, the business of building a premium wine brand, or the future of Australian wine, this conversation offers a fascinating look at how one family has navigated change while remaining true to its values. This is my conversation with Charles and Sophie Melton. A huge thanks to Charles and Sophie for joining. Topics covered: The history of the Barossa vine pull and how oversupply crises shaped the region North vs south Barossa style differences and what makes the southern end distinct The origin story of Nine Popes — and its surprising connection to Châteauneuf-du-Pape Brand authenticity, storytelling, and what keeps Charles Melton relevant across four generations of customers The current Australian wine industry glut and how small producers are navigating it Distribution philosophy: long-term relationships, staying boutique, and resisting over-expansion The Young Gun of Wine awards and what it means for a new generation winemaker to compete Staying true to classic Barossa varieties — Grenache, Shiraz, Mataro, Cabernet — rather than chasing trends Keywords: Charles Melton Wines, Barossa Valley wine, Nine Popes, Grenache Barossa, Sophie Melton winemaker, Domaine Sophie Claire, Peter Lehmann, Barossa vine pull, Krondorf Road winery, Young Gun of Wine, Australian wine industry, family winery, wine brand storytelling, Barossa Shiraz, cellar door Barossa Support the show
June 13 · 1 hr
The Hidden Life of Vineyards - with Dylan Grigg
Send us Fan Mail Wine is full of simple stories. Old vines are better than young vines. Great vineyards are all about terroir. Climate determines quality. Pick the right variety, put it in the right place, and the rest takes care of itself. They're neat stories. They're marketable stories. According to this week's guest, they're also dangerously incomplete. Dylan Grigg is one of the most respected viticulturists in Australia. He's a consultant, researcher, vineyard owner, international speaker, former Australian Viticulturist of the Year, and a man whose work takes him from the Barossa Valley to Tasmania, Western Australia, California, Spain and beyond. In this conversation, we explore the extraordinary complexity that exists beneath the surface of every vineyard. We discuss old vines, epigenetics, vine memory, climate variability, regenerative viticulture, and why so many of the questions wine lovers ask can never be answered with a simple yes or no. We unpack Dylan's remarkable journey from a young apprentice chef in the Barossa to earning a PhD, before relocating his family to Catalonia and building an international reputation as one of the wine industry's most respected vineyard minds. Along the way, Dylan explains why vineyards aren't spreadsheets, why experience matters as much as science, and why the best viticulturists often spend their lives becoming more comfortable with uncertainty rather than less. This is my conversation with Dylan Grigg. A huge thanks to Dylan for joining me Support the show
June 6 · 1 hr 31 min
Part 2 with Robert Joseph - The Next Chapter for the Wine Industry
Send us Fan Mail In Part 1 of my conversation with wine industry commentator, producer, and recovering wine critic Robert Joseph, we explored a deceptively simple question: where do wineries actually make their money? But that conversation quickly led to a much bigger one. What happens when the traditional wine business model comes under pressure? In this second part, we move beyond profitability and into the forces reshaping the global wine industry. We discuss ageing vineyard owners, succession challenges, private equity, direct-to-consumer sales, wine tourism, changing consumer behaviour, and why adaptation may be the defining challenge for wineries over the next decade. We also tackle the role of wine critics and traditional wine media, and Robert offers some characteristically frank views on Australia's place in the global wine market and whether we've lost clarity about what Australian wine stands for internationally. Buckle up for this section team. Whether you're a wine producer, retailer, marketer, or simply fascinated by the business of wine, there's plenty here to challenge conventional thinking. And if you'd like to explore these ideas further, I highly recommend following Robert's work through Wine Thinker and his Substack, where he continues to ask some of the most important, and often uncomfortable, questions facing the wine industry today. This is Part 2 of my conversation with Robert Joseph. Support the show
May 9 · 1 hr 21 min
How the wine industry makes money - and how it doesn't
Send us Fan Mail For a long time, the wine industry has sold itself on romance. The rolling vineyard. The family story. The passionate winemaker chasing perfection in a bottle. But behind every bottle of wine is something far more complicated: a business model. And right now, many of those models are under enormous pressure. In this conversation, Robert Joseph returns to The Cellar Door Podcast to unpack one of the most important, and least understood, questions in wine: How does the wine industry actually make money? From tiny family growers to giant corporations, cooperatives, negociants, supermarkets, private labels, cellar doors and direct-to-consumer sales, Robert peels back the layers of an industry where agriculture, luxury, hospitality, branding, land value and distribution all collide. We talk about why some wineries survive while others struggle, why owning vineyard land is not always the asset people think it is, how supermarkets and distribution chains shape the entire market, and why the future belongs to producers who think beyond simply growing grapes and making wine. This is one of those conversations that changes the way you look at the wine business, and maybe the wine bottle sitting in front of you. Here is my conversation with Robert Joseph. Support the show
May 2 · 45 min
Travis Schultz on harnessing the connective power of wine
Send us Fan Mail Over the last year, while speaking with people across the Australian wine industry, one name kept unexpectedly coming up in conversation in connection with the Queensland market, not a winemaker, not a sommelier, but a lawyer. Today’s guest is Travis Schultz, founder of Travis Schultz & Partners, philanthropist, wine writer, and someone who has quietly built some of Queensland’s most respected wine events. Through events supporting charities including SunnyKids and LifeFlight, Travis has used wine not simply as a product, but as a powerful tool for connection, bringing together winemakers, professionals, community leaders, and wine lovers to raise millions of dollars for good causes. We discuss everything from the anatomy of a great wine event, to why wine creates a different kind of conversation, through to the upcoming Noosa Concours d'Elegance activation, where Travis and his team will host an exclusive winemakers lunch in the middle of one of Australia’s most spectacular luxury events. But beneath the wine, the stories, and the philanthropy, this conversation is really about something deeper: the role wine plays in bringing people together. Ladies and gentlemen, this is my conversation with Travis Schultz. Support the show
April 25 · 1 hr 1 min
The People Building Geographe
Send us Fan Mail Late last year I had the pleasure of speaking with Pipa Nielson who gave an exciting and colourful introduction to the Western Australian region of Geographe wine region. Following that first course in Geographe education, Pipa arranged a second: a conversation with wine rockstar, Kim Horton, of Willow Bridge Estate. After growing up in the Swan Valley, Kim has made wine across multiple regions in WA, and in this conversation I get to ask him what makes Geographe, and the broader WA wine scene, so very special. Kim’s story is also fascinating, with early aspirations in the finance sector… aspirations that took a remarkably different turn. What follows is a deep dive into a young region that’s still defining itself. We talk about the diversity of Geographe, from coastal plains to the elevated Ferguson Valley, and how that translates into a wide spectrum of wine styles. This is a conversation about people and craft. Kim shares what it’s really like to be a winemaker: the highs, the setbacks, and the reality of building a career in an industry that’s anything but predictable. This is Geographe, through the eyes of someone living and shaping it. A huge thanks to Kim Horton for joining. Support the show
April 5 · 37 min
Catching up with Doug Neal
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March 28 · 46 min
Something Completely Different: A Mystery Box Tasting with Marc Malouf
Send us Fan Mail To borrow from Monty Python: now for something completely different. This episode steps away from the usual B2B conversations and industry stories, and into something I don’t usually focus on… wine tasting. When a mystery box of wine appeared on my doorstep, filled with a collection of genuinely exotic and intriguing bottles, I did what anyone would do: I tracked down the sender. That trail led me to none other than the talented, guitar-shredding, wine-slinging Marc Malouf of iHeart Wine, and a very generous supporter and benefactor. So I thought, why not lean into it? In this episode, we put the usual format to one side and let Marc guide us through a flavour-filled journey across a lineup of wines that are as diverse as they are exciting. For those who are interested, the lineup includes: A fun 2020 Nebbiolo blend from the Muraje label in Piedmont; A 2024 Vermentino from La Magia in Tuscany; The 2022 Definitus Pinot Noir from Tapanappa’s Foggy Hill Vineyard in the Fleurieu Peninsula; A 2023 Mas Jullien rosé from France’s Languedoc region; A 2023 Clos Marie Manon, also from the Languedoc region; And finally, a Blanc de Blancs from Boll & Cie in Champagne. Along the way, we’re joined by a special guest, my brother-in-law Mac, bringing a fresh perspective as a passionate foodie discovering these wines in real time, whenever I let him get a word in. Yes, I know I can yap. I hope you enjoy this different style chit chat, and a massive thanks to Marc and Mac for joining me. Support the show
March 21 · 26 min
Revisiting the 4 Ps of Marketing with Joe Fattorini
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March 14 · 1 hr 28 min
The Spirit of the Hunter Valley: Garth Eather of Meerea Park on History, Wine and Hard Markets
Send us Fan Mail The Hunter Valley occupies a special place in the story of Australian wine. It is, in many ways, the spiritual birthplace of the industry - a region where generations of families have wrestled with the climate, the soil, and the vagaries of the market to produce wines of remarkable character. My guest today, Garth Eather, represents one of those families. Garth is the co-founder of Meerea Park Wines, a winery he established with his brother Reese in 1991. But the Eather family story in Australia goes back much further than that, all the way to the arrival of the Second Fleet in 1790, and more than two centuries of agricultural history in what would eventually become the Hunter Valley wine region. In this conversation, Garth shares that remarkable family history, from convict beginnings to grape growing, and eventually to building one of the Hunter Valley’s most respected small wineries. We also talk about what it really takes to survive as a small producer today: the reality of direct-to-consumer sales, the challenges facing regional tourism, and why some of the best wines the Hunter Valley has ever produced are being made right now, even as the market becomes harder than ever. Along the way, we dive into the character of the Hunter Valley itself, its legendary Chardonnay, Semillon and Shiraz, its fiercely site-specific vineyards, and the deep sense of history that still shapes the region today. You cannot help but hear the pride Garth has for the Hunter and its stories, and this is reflected through their wines. We talk through three of their releases and we discuss what I describe as the bold strategy underpinning the Etherial (sorry for the pun) Stratos Chardonnay. This is a conversation about wine, certainly, but also about family, resilience, and the stories that define a place - because that is really what wine is all about. A huge thanks to Garth for joining me. Support the show
March 7 · 1 hr 10 min
Chuck Hayward reflects on 40 Years of Australian Wine in the US Trenches
Send us Fan Mail Australian wine once rode a remarkable wave of success in the United States — built on strong personalities, passionate importers, and wines that connected with everyday drinkers. Today, the picture is more complicated. In this episode, I sit down with Chuuuuck Hayward, a 40-year veteran of the American wine trade to unpack what’s really happening on the ground in the US. We revisit, the rise of Australian wine in the US, the role boutique importers played in building the category, and why the loss of ambassadors, changing distribution networks, and shifting market priorities may now be reshaping its future. We also dive into some tough questions: Have everyday wine drinkers been forgotten? What happens when distribution keeps changing? And how should Australia position itself in a crowded US market? This is a candid conversation about the challenges, the history, and the opportunities ahead for Australian wine. A huge thanks to Chuck for joining me. Support the show
February 28 · 54 min
Ireland, Melbourne, and MasterChef: The Journey of Phil Conway
Send us Fan Mail Phil Conway embraced adventure and the unknown when he moved from Ireland to Melbourne in Australia. Phil describes a love of food from an early age, a love and passion that placed him on an inevitable collision course with wine. These passions took him across the globe while also launching him onto the set of Australia’s masterchef. Phil describes his passion for food and wine as extensions of himself rather than descriptions of what he does or his occupation. Food and wine are central to his entire life. In this conversation, we discuss Phil’s role as wine buyer for Barrel and Batch, purchase trends in Melbourne, his journey from Ireland's Galway to Melbourne and Phil corrects some misconceptions I have about everything Masterchef. An extremely fun conversation. A huge thanks to Phil for joining me. Support the show
February 21 · 39 min
Green Shoots for Australian Wine: In Conversation with Will Taylor
Send us Fan Mail Will Taylor is one of the most insightful voices in Australian Wine - and its not hard to see why. His perspective is as unique as it is dialed in. As the managing partner of the wine group at Finlayson’s law, he spends his days analysing the aspects of the wine trade and industry that get the least attention - the least sexy aspects of the trade, that are the most important when it comes to building a viable trade and industry. In this chat I get to ask Will about his key takeaways from 2025, while he also unpacks what he perceives to be necessary to sprout the green shoots that will place the national industry on an upward trajectory. As always, an absolute pleasure and privilege talking with Will Taylor, a huge thanks to Will for joining me. Support the show
February 14 · 1 hr 6 min
Energy, Drive and Spunk - capturing Cyndal Petty
Send us Fan Mail Cyndal Petty has spunk. She describes her drive and oodles of energy from an early age, her parents placing her in the gymnastics arena and her early success in it until injury caused her to pivot. But the foundations of drive and dedication had set hard, and when Cyndal found herself as an apprentice chef at age 15 years old, it was only a matter of time before she set her eyes on a new goal and shot out in pursuit. Her goal: to learn and absorb everything she could about wine. Fast forward some years and Cyndal has become a multidimensional force: she writes, presents, consults and curates. Most importantly, she works tirelessly and endlessly to hone her skills and improve. This was an extremely fun conversation with someone who is backing herself to achieve exciting things. A massive thanks to Cyndal for joining me on the CDP. Support the show
February 7 · 1 hr 39 min
Elegance, Obscurity, and 2% Exports: Daniel Sangermani's mission to showcase Swiss wine
Send us Fan Mail Daniel Sangermani has embraced the challenge of bringing the prized wines of Switzerland to the sun kissed shores of Australia. Switzerland exports less than 2% of its total production but consumes the 4th most wine per person of any country in the world. Many, if not most people, particularly in Australia, have little familiarity with Switzerland's deep and historic wine culture, its six wine regions, and its approximately 320 grape varieties that they use to craft some of the prettiest and most elegant wines I have tasted in recent memory. Building awareness of a product and industry in a market with next to no awareness of it is indeed an unenviable task. However Daniel is indeed the man for it. His story is as incredible as his many diverse skill sets, and his passion for Swiss wine is contagious. In 2025 Daniel launched Invidia Wines, Invidia being Italian for envy. I think we will see a lot from Daniel in the coming months and years. From my perspective I am indeed envious of the magic Daniel is bringing to our shores. But my envy is out-shon by the gratitude I have to Daniel for taking the time to sit with me and record an incredible conversation about his journey from Ticino in southern Switzerland to the Australian Shores and the epic that has culminated in him setting up Invidia Wines.. A huge thanks to Daniel for joining me on the CDP. Support the show