Michael Johnson: “We SHOULD Make AI Conscious”

Michael Edward Johnson is a co-founder of the Qualia Research Institute and an independent researcher in the fields of consciousness, neuroscience and philosophy. Michael is, in my view, one of the most under appreciated thinkers around, so it brings me great pleasure to present this survey of his ideas to you all. We talk about mathematical theories of consciousness (dual-aspect monism), the symmetry theory of valence, panpsychism and super organism consciousness, vasocomputation, Buddhism, moral realism through valence realism, AI consciousness and AI alignment. If you found this podcast valuable, consider becoming a patron. My patrons help keep this show sustainable and ensure I can keep bringing you the most interesting thinkers in the highest quality possible. 0:00 — Highlights 0:51 — Intro 2:30 — Are the big labs incentivized to play down consciousness? 7:09 — What is consciousness? 10:03 — Dual-aspect monism 18:14 — Symmetry theory of valence 24:00 — Wait so panpsychism? 30:18 — The binding problem 34:08 — Is a corporation conscious? 42:51 — Vasocomputation, embodied bayesian priors, and trauma 49:50 — The self 50:57 — Why do latches stay closed? 54:29 — Cancer 55:27 — “The hand of the mind is the vascular system” 56:52 — Vasocomp. and predictive processing 59:04 — Tanha 1:02:50 — The multiple paths to Vasocomp. 1:04:46 — What is Enlightenment? 1:10:54 — How to open latches 1:18:00 — Empirical validation? 1:18:57 — Moral realism grounding in valence 1:32:38 — Objections to valence utilitarianism 1:40:32 — Is AI conscious? 1:49:58 — Is AI consciousness good for alignment? 1:57:38 — Michael’s longterm vision References Qualia Research Institute: https://qri.org/ Michael’s book Principia Qualia: https://opentheory.net/PrincipiaQualia.pdf Integrated Information Theory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_information_theory Symmetry Theory of Valence: https://opentheory.net/2021/07/a-primer-on-the-symmetry-theory-of-valence/ Noether’s Theorem: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noether’s_theorem Romeo Stevens’ X: https://x.com/RomeoStevens76 Nick Cammarata’s X: https://x.com/nickcammarata Michael (plus3happiness)’s X: https://x.com/Plus3Happiness The Feeling of Value: Moral Realism Grounded in Phenomenal Consciousness: https://amzn.to/4qQTo88 Reasons and Persons: https://amzn.to/4haQUhy Michael’s Socials Michael’s Blog: https://opentheory.net/ Michael Johnson’s X: https://x.com/johnsonmxe A beautiful overview of Michael’s core ideas: https://hyperspace.opentheory.net/ My Socials: X: http://x.com/cxgonzalez/ Substack: https://substack.com/@cxgonzalez Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/c.x.gonzalez/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@cxgonzalez Spotify: Apple Podcasts: Get full access to Seeing Clearly at cxgonzalez.substack.com/subscribe