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Philosophy, Programs, and Prompts · August 20 · 1 hr 43 min

Computer Minds, Mike Levin & Panpsychism

In this episode of Philosophy, Programs, and Prompts, Casey Hart ( @OntologyExplained ) and Carl Brown( @InternetOfBugs ) dive deep into biologist Michael Levin’s provocative claims about cognition in basic computer algorithms. Does a distributed bubble sort display "delayed gratification" or proto-cognitive desires? Or are these emergent properties simply artifacts of velocity differences, ill-defined terms, and after-the-fact p-hacking?Casey and Carl break down the computer science, philosophical frameworks (substrate independence, Platonic spaces, and supervenience), and the importance of rigorous, falsifiable hypothesis testing when crossing disciplinary boundaries.Subscribe for more grounded, hype-free takes from two real humans who know the tech!More info about Casey:https://CaseyHart.com/More info about Carl:https://InternetOfBugs.com///Sources/References:// Lex Fridman Clip: https://youtu.be/jr1sNYY2t9A// Curt Jaimungal Video: https://youtu.be/_kuwwmFnxGY// The Secret Life of Algorithmshttps://www.forbes.com/sites/andreamorris/2025/11/13/the-secret-life-of-algorithms/ // BBC Youtube video on Chinese Roomhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0MD4sRHj1M//Thomas Kuhn on the History of Sciencehttps://plato.stanford.edu/entries/thomas-kuhn/00:00 - Introduction & The Delayed Gratification Claim01:00 - Meeting Dr. Michael Levin’s Bio & Ideas06:16 - Philosophical Foundations: Substrate Independence09:09 - The Scientific Method & Open Hypotheses10:50 - Platonism and Mathematical Realms14:42 - Levels of Selection and Supervenience19:39 - How Bubble Sort Works (Top-Down vs. Distributed)27:26 - Asynchronous Systems & The "6 Lines of Code" Myth34:23 - The Frozen Element: Delayed Gratification or Gradient Descent?43:20 - Multi-Algorithm Sorting & "Algotype" Clustering47:18 - Emergent Desires vs. Velocity & Algorithmic Artifacts59:50 - The Note Card Thought Experiment & The Chinese Room01:06:03 - Repeated Digits & Final Clustered States01:12:24 - Evaluating Levin’s Conclusion on Proto-Cognitive Systems01:20:38 - The "Free Compute" & Platonic Space Dilemma01:28:40 - Panpsychism, Coffee Cups, and Diluting the Meaning of Mind01:34:47 - Interdisciplinary Claims, Semantics, and Equivocation01:42:12 - Wrap Up#Philosophy #ComputerScience #MichaelLevin #Algorithms #Panpsychism #AIPhilosophy #Coding #Podcast

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In this episode of Philosophy, Programs, and Prompts, Casey Hart ( @OntologyExplained ) and Carl Brown( @InternetOfBugs ) dive deep into biologist Michael Levin’s provocative claims about cognition in basic computer algorithms. Does a distributed bubble sort display "delayed gratification" or proto-cognitive desires? Or are these emergent properties simply artifacts of velocity differences, ill-defined terms, and after-the-fact p-hacking?Casey and Carl break down the computer science, philosophical frameworks (substrate independence, Platonic spaces, and supervenience), and the importance of rigorous, falsifiable hypothesis testing when crossing disciplinary boundaries.Subscribe for more grounded, hype-free takes from two real humans who know the tech!More info about Casey:https://CaseyHart.com/More info about Carl:https://InternetOfBugs.com///Sources/References:// Lex Fridman Clip: https://youtu.be/jr1sNYY2t9A// Curt Jaimungal Video: https://youtu.be/_kuwwmFnxGY// The Secret Life of Algorithmshttps://www.forbes.com/sites/andreamorris/2025/11/13/the-secret-life-of-algorithms/ // BBC Youtube video on Chinese Roomhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0MD4sRHj1M//Thomas Kuhn on the History of Sciencehttps://plato.stanford.edu/entries/thomas-kuhn/00:00 - Introduction & The Delayed Gratification Claim01:00 - Meeting Dr. Michael Levin’s Bio & Ideas06:16 - Philosophical Foundations: Substrate Independence09:09 - The Scientific Method & Open Hypotheses10:50 - Platonism and Mathematical Realms14:42 - Levels of Selection and Supervenience19:39 - How Bubble Sort Works (Top-Down vs. Distributed)27:26 - Asynchronous Systems & The "6 Lines of Code" Myth34:23 - The Frozen Element: Delayed Gratification or Gradient Descent?43:20 - Multi-Algorithm Sorting & "Algotype" Clustering47:18 - Emergent Desires vs. Velocity & Algorithmic Artifacts59:50 - The Note Card Thought Experiment & The Chinese Room01:06:03 - Repeated Digits & Final Clustered States01:12:24 - Evaluating Levin’s Conclusion on Proto-Cognitive Systems01:20:38 - The "Free Compute" & Platonic Space Dilemma01:28:40 - Panpsychism, Coffee Cups, and Diluting the Meaning of Mind01:34:47 - Interdisciplinary Claims, Semantics, and Equivocation01:42:12 - Wrap Up#Philosophy #ComputerScience #MichaelLevin #Algorithms #Panpsychism #AIPhilosophy #Coding #Podcast

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