Indepartners

Lisa Finkelstein and Kurt Kraiger

Think long distance relationships never work? Think again! In Indepartners, two behavioral scientists talk about the advantages and opportunities that come with a permanent, loving relationship – that happens to take place in two different cities.

Dr. Lisa Finkelstein and Dr. Kurt Kraiger have successfully navigated their careers while being, in their words, the happiest couple they know. As Lisa and Kurt explore the dynamics of love at a distance, couples living apart or living together will discover ways to be more intentional and get the most out of their relationships – and their personal lives.

Listen as Lisa and Kurt explore topics like intentionality, communication, and the value of rituals over holidays in a 30-minute format combining personal experience, humor, and relatable examples.
New episodes will drop on the 14th of each month.

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October 14 · 38 min
The Elephant in the Room: Sex educator, researcher, and consultant Dr. Justin Lehmiller discusses all things long distance sex
We rarely talk about sex on the pod, but when we do, we go big! We are thrilled to bring you an interview with Dr. Justin Lehmiller. Justin is a social psychologist and a Senior Research Fellow at the Kinsey Institute and former award-winning teacher at Harvard University. He hosts the Sex and Psychology Podcast and authored the popular book Tell Me What You Want: The Science of Sexual Desire and How it Can Help You Improve Your Sex Life. Justin shares his personal and professional strategies to keep long distance relationships both sexy and emotionally intimate. Thanks for listening! Original Indepartners theme song composed by David W.K. Johnson. Get in touch with us: Email: indepartnerspodcast@gmail.com Text or Voicemail: 504-313-4425 Follow our podcast on Instagram at @indepartnerspodcast Follow Kurt on Instagram at @urbankvrt Follow Lisa on Instagram at @doclisafink and online at demandtheshimmer.com
September 14 · 55 min
Indepartners in Captivity: We’re NOT doing THAT again!
Lisa and Kurt discuss their tumultuous summer, marked by Kurt’s open-heart surgery in early July and their subsequent seven weeks together (a new Indepartners record!). As Kurt recovered at Lisa’s, the Indepartners had to navigate temporary new roles – worrywart caregiver and grumpy patient – and also figure out how to maintain and strengthen the best aspects of their regular relationship when they were now together 24-7. Over time, they relied on their own lessons from previous episodes like valuing independence, structuring communication, and creating rituals within their day-to-day life. Relive the adventure with them! Thanks for listening! Original Indepartners theme song composed by David W.K. Johnson. Get in touch with us: Email: indepartnerspodcast@gmail.com Text or Voicemail: 504-313-4425 Follow our podcast on Instagram at @indepartnerspodcast Follow Kurt on Instagram at @urbankvrt Follow Lisa on Instagram at @doclisafink and online at demandtheshimmer.com
August 14 · 43 min
Hey, Neighbor! Stories of Same-City LATs with Dr. Laura Funk
In this episode, Kurt and Lisa interview Dr. Laura Funk, a sociologist and social gerontologist who studies LAT couples living in the same metro area. Dr. Funk shares themes of the meaning couples give to their relationship choices and how they build trust and communicate their commitment to themselves and others. We also discuss the drive toward same-city LATs for older couples. Thanks for listening! Original Indepartners theme song composed by David W.K. Johnson. Get in touch with us: Email: indepartnerspodcast@gmail.com Text or Voicemail: 504-313-4425 Follow our podcast on Instagram at @indepartnerspodcast Follow Kurt on Instagram at @urbankvrt Follow Lisa on Instagram at @doclisafink and online at demandtheshimmer.com
July 14 · 42 min
A Portfolio of International Lovers: Gloria and Igor's Story
What happens when two people visiting their home country go online looking only for something light and fun, but end up falling for each other? The start of a great love story and an indepartnership! Gloria and Igor share their fascinating story, taking them (at various times and in different combinations) from the Canary Islands, to Canada, to Arizona, to California. Learn about what they like best about their indepartnership, what they see as their biggest challenges, and where they hope to end up in the future. We had so much fun talking to these two wonderful people, and we know you'll have fun listening! Thanks for listening! Original Indepartners theme song composed by David W.K. Johnson. Get in touch with us: Email: indepartnerspodcast@gmail.com Text or Voicemail: 504-313-4425 Follow our podcast on Instagram at @indepartnerspodcast Follow Kurt on Instagram at @urbankvrt Follow Lisa on Instagram at @doclisafink and online at demandtheshimmer.com
June 14 · 1 hr 5 min
Tables Turned: Relationship Researchers Put the Indepartners under the Microscope
In this episode we bring you an interview with a twist: Lisa and Kurt are the interviewees! Social psychology relationship researchers Brie Muzzy and Brad Sagarin study various types of intentional relationships, such as polyamorous and power exchange relationships. A few years back while in the audience of one of their talks, Lisa recognized that she believed from their description of intentionality that purposeful long-distance relationships also fit the bill. Brie and Brad expressed interest in learning more, and we decided to chop it up on the air! The result was a fun conversation seeded with personal anecdotes and research foundations. Brie and Brad’s intriguing questions allowed the Indepartners to think more deeply about many themes from prior episodes and stimulated new insights and food for thought. Thanks for listening! Original Indepartners theme song composed by David W.K. Johnson. Get in touch with us: Email: indepartnerspodcast@gmail.com Text or Voicemail: 504-313-4425 Follow our podcast on Instagram at @indepartnerspodcast Follow Kurt on Instagram at @urbankvrt Follow Lisa on Instagram at @doclisafink and online at demandtheshimmer.com
May 14 · 49 min
Retreat Apart, Grow Together
Coming to you from the studio (Lisa) and his closet (Kurt), the Indepartners begin this episode talking a bit about their recent SIOP conference. SIOP is where they first met many years ago and still holds a special meaning to them as individuals and as a couple. After the intense people-time at the conference and a grinding week finishing out their semesters, Lisa and Kurt are about to embark separate retreats. Learn a little bit more about why they do these retreats, the different frequency and focus of these retreats for each of them, who gets a pedicure and who doesn’t, and how an intentional focus as individuals also serves their relationship. Thanks for listening! Original Indepartners theme song composed by David W.K. Johnson. Get in touch with us: Email: indepartnerspodcast@gmail.com Text or Voicemail: 504-313-4425 Follow our podcast on Instagram at @indepartnerspodcast Follow Kurt on Instagram at @urbankvrt Follow Lisa on Instagram at @doclisafink and online at demandtheshimmer.com
April 14 · 35 min
It's right there in the name: Ideas on Independence
The theme of independence appears in most episodes of Indepartners, but in this episode Lisa and Kurt go all in examining the (many) benefits and (some) challenges that come with independence in their personal lives and in their relationship. After defining the concept (hey, they’re nerds!), they talk about the joy and opportunity independence brings. And they share the occasional pushback they get for pursuing independence. They also touch on stumbling blocks that can happen when couples who are used to their independence spend extended time together. They get into the how living solo naturally fosters skills and capabilities for living independently that can help later in life. Finally, they end with some suggestions for intentionally considering and enabling needs for independence in cohabitating relationships. Thanks for listening! Original Indepartners theme song composed by David W.K. Johnson. Get in touch with us: Email: indepartnerspodcast@gmail.com Text or Voicemail: 504-313-4425 Follow our podcast on Instagram at @indepartnerspodcast Follow Kurt on Instagram at @urbankvrt Follow Lisa on Instagram at @doclisafink and online at demandtheshimmer.com
March 14 · 45 min
Us in Flux (The one where Kurt goes to the hospital)
Kurt and Lisa are back for Season 2 of Indepartners, kicking off a month later than anticipated and with an episode they definitely didn't plan to start off the season with. Overnight and with no prior signs of trouble, Kurt started January 3 with some scary symptoms that turned out to be endocarditis, a bacterial infection in his heart. Lisa and Kurt tell the story of how his time in the hospital unfolded, how they pivoted their plans for January, and what happens when couples living apart are suddenly hit with a need to be closer together. Reflecting on this time, Kurt and Lisa realized how so many of their themes from the first season factored into this time of flux. Thanks for listening! Original Indepartners theme song composed by David W.K. Johnson. Get in touch with us: Email: indepartnerspodcast@gmail.com Text or Voicemail: 504-313-4425 Follow our podcast on Instagram at @indepartnerspodcast Follow Kurt on Instagram at @urbankvrt Follow Lisa on Instagram at @doclisafink and online at demandtheshimmer.com
S1 · E10
Nov 17, 2025 · 51 min
You Got Questions? We Got Answers!
And that’s a wrap! After nine episodes of deep dives and wonderful guests, Kurt and Lisa hang out together (in the same studio!) to dish about the season and answer listener questions. In their most unscripted episode yet, the indepartners each took a few notes on listener questions, but had no idea what the other was going to say. Find out where they agree, where they disagree, and what they learned from their conversations this season. Kurt and Lisa are so incredibly grateful to the listeners who provided questions and to all of you who listened in this season (from 417 cities and 36 countries!). Season Two will launch in 2026. Have any ideas for new topics? Want to appear on the pod? Please reach out! Thanks for listening! Original Indepartners theme song composed by David W.K. Johnson. Get in touch with us: Email: indepartnerspodcast@gmail.com Text or Voicemail: 504-313-4425 Follow our podcast on Instagram at @indepartnerspodcast Follow Kurt on Instagram at @urbankvrt Follow Lisa on Instagram at @doclisafink and online at demandtheshimmer.com
S1 · E10
Oct 14, 2025 · 45 min
From George Glass to Jimmy Crafts: Michelle and Jim’s Story
We are thrilled to bring you another interview with some Indepartners with a twist! Michelle and Jim were high school sweethearts who always dreamed of big careers in broadcasting and journalism and promised to support each other in reaching their dreams, even if it meant having to be apart. That’s just what they did. After attending college together, Michelle climbed the ladder in radio broadcasting and Jim in sports writing. They have moved in and out of indepartnership, spending stretches of time in separate states and other stretches of time in the same household. Michelle and Jim share with us the lessons they’ve learned over time in managing and thriving with this dynamic lifestyle – the ups, the downs, and one of the most hilarious rituals we’ve ever heard of. We know you will enjoy this delightful, heartfelt, and humorous interview. Thanks for listening! Original Indepartners theme song composed by David W.K. Johnson. Get in touch with us: Email: indepartnerspodcast@gmail.com Text or Voicemail: 504-313-4425 Follow our podcast on Instagram at @indepartnerspodcast Follow Kurt on Instagram at @urbankvrt Follow Lisa on Instagram at @doclisafink and online at demandtheshimmer.com
Sep 14, 2025 · 44 min
LAT but not least: An interview with Vicki Larson
We are so honored and excited to bring you an interview with award-winning journalist and author of the book LATtitude: How you can make a live apart together relationship work. In our lively conversation, Vicki shares many of her well-researched insights from her book on LAT (Living Apart Together) relationships, including her findings on: - Who tends to be most attracted to LAT. - The role of trust in LAT. - Perceptions of the stigma of LAT. - The meaning of realness in relationships. - Changing attitudes about LAT. - The rules of LAT: Practical conversations and advice for successful LAT. We know you will enjoy this spirited and enlightening conversation! You can find a link to Vicki’s book here and follow her on Instagram Thanks for listening! Original Indepartners theme song composed by David W.K. Johnson. Get in touch with us: Email: indepartnerspodcast@gmail.com Text or Voicemail: 504-313-4425 Follow our podcast on Instagram at @indepartnerspodcast Follow Kurt on Instagram at @urbankvrt Follow Lisa on Instagram at @doclisafink and online at demandtheshimmer.com
Aug 14, 2025 · 41 min
Memphis? But you won’t even go to Brooklyn! Mindy and Austin’s story
In Episode 7 we bring you another great Indepartners interview! Austin is a self-described southern gentleman who was an entrepreneur living in Memphis, and Mindy is an executive living in Manhattan. Austin and Mindy met online and really connected – and then Mindy realized where Austin lived. Her friends predicted it would never last because she “won’t even go to Brooklyn". Luckily, they gave the Indepartners lifestyle a chance and four years later they are thriving. Mindy and Austin share their unique perspective on some of the themes discussed all season like intentionality, communication, and anticipation. They introduce a new topic to the podcast – the added challenge of each having children who always remain a priority. Both share their insights on how they’ve built the incredible bond they now share. We believe anyone listening will find takeaways from their story to try in their own lives – we know we did! Thanks for listening! Original Indepartners theme song composed by David W.K. Johnson. Get in touch with us: Email: indepartnerspodcast@gmail.com Text or Voicemail: 504-313-4425 Follow our podcast on Instagram at @indepartnerspodcast Follow Kurt on Instagram at @urbankvrt Follow Lisa on Instagram at @doclisafink and online at demandtheshimmer.com
S1 · E6
Jul 14, 2025 · 33 min
New Orleans, Boston, and Blueberry Hill: Karon and Steve’s Story
We are so excited to bring you our first interview on the Indepartner’s podcast! Karon and Kurt had a chance meeting at a beer event a few years ago and bonded over both being in long distance committed relationships, and we’ve all been friends since. Listen in to hear how Karon and Steve met and fell in love. They have had two different phases of indepartnerships in their relationship and we’ll see how they used lessons from the first experience to make the second time great. We talk about their communication patterns (so different than ours, and perfect for them!) and learn their perspective on the highs and lows of being long distance. They share their advice for couples starting indepartnerships or for anyone looking for new ways to grow their relationships. Thanks for listening! Original Indepartners theme song composed by David W.K. Johnson. Get in touch with us: Email: indepartnerspodcast@gmail.com Text or Voicemail: 504-313-4425 Follow our podcast on Instagram at @indepartnerspodcast Follow Kurt on Instagram at @urbankvrt Follow Lisa on Instagram at @doclisafink and online at demandtheshimmer.com
Jun 14, 2025 · 39 min
Valentines Schmalentines: Your Relationship, Your Rituals
One fun and meaningful way that couples, Indepartners or otherwise, can be more intentional is to develop their own rituals. Couples can choose whether or not they want to celebrate traditional holidays, can do holidays on their own terms, and can create new rituals - regularly occurring events that celebrate life and are bespoke to the couple's interests and idiosyncrasies. In Episode 5, Lisa and Kurt talk about how central rituals have been to their Indepartnership and why they matter. In the first segment, they draw from research on the importance of rituals and differentiate traditions and routines. In the second segment they describe their Renewal Dinner and how it's become a central touchstone in their relationship. In the final segment they provide examples of some of their rituals just for fun, like Big Walk Day and the Christmas Eve Dive Bar Pub Crawl. They also discuss ways to honor each other's important solo rituals. As always, they wrap up with ideas listeners can try in any type of relationship. Thanks for listening! Original Indepartners theme song composed by David W.K. Johnson. Get in touch with us: Email: indepartnerspodcast@gmail.com Text or Voicemail: 504-313-4425 Follow our podcast on Instagram at @indepartnerspodcast Follow Kurt on Instagram at @urbankvrt Follow Lisa on Instagram at @doclisafink and online at demandtheshimmer.com
May 14, 2025 · 38 min
Tom Petty Was Wrong: The Waiting Is Pretty Great
Anticipation is one of the most underrated emotions. There is a natural cycle to indepartnerships involving not only anticipation of the next time together, but savoring of the limited time together and reminiscing about the joy of being together. In Episode 4, Lisa and Kurt give their take on these three stages of the cycle. They nerd out over scientific research supporting the well-being benefits of each element. In segment one they talk about anticipation, emphasizing the emotions and behaviors that make this stage special (with bonus insight into Kurt's clothing obsessions). In segment two they provide ways to flex your savoring muscles. In the last segment they review how intentional reminiscing practices can help extend the fun. As always, they wrap up with ideas listeners can try in any type of relationship. Thanks for listening! Original Indepartners theme song composed by David W.K. Johnson. Get in touch with us: Email: indepartnerspodcast@gmail.com Text or Voicemail: 504-313-4425 Follow our podcast on Instagram at @indepartnerspodcast Follow Kurt on Instagram at @urbankvrt Follow Lisa on Instagram at @doclisafink and online at demandtheshimmer.com
Apr 14, 2025 · 40 min
Indepartners Communicate: Lisa and Kurt Hate the Phone
It’s no big news that communication is important to great relationships, but when you are indepartners, communication is the relationship most of the time! This makes it especially important to be intentional and communicate about communication (so meta); intentional not just what you communicate about, but also how you do it and how often. In Episode 3, Lisa and Kurt break down these three elements. In the first segment, they discuss the different mediums of communication. Get ready for a game of over/under regarding how often they use the phone! In the second segment they talk about when (and how often) they communicate and the importance of taking advantage of the independent part of being indepartners, releasing the socially-imposed pressure to try to communicate as often as couples who cohabitate do. In the last segment they hit on what they communicate about, and what they intentionally choose not to (and why). As always, they wrap up with ideas listeners can try in any type of relationship. Thanks for listening! Original Indepartners theme song composed by David W.K. Johnson. Get in touch with us: Email: indepartnerspodcast@gmail.com Text or Voicemail: 504-313-4425 Follow our podcast on Instagram at @indepartnerspodcast Follow Kurt on Instagram at @urbankvrt Follow Lisa on Instagram at @doclisafink and online at demandtheshimmer.com
Mar 14, 2025 · 37 min
Cheers to Intentionality
In Episode 2, we discuss intentionality, a word that came up so much in Episode 1 that Lisa invented a drinking game. A key benefit of choosing to live apart is the opportunity to design the relationship you want; as nerdy psychologists we explore what intentionality means and then how many opportunities there are to deliberately craft a relationship that works for both people - and strengthens them as a couple. In the second segment, we share insights about being intentional every day whether we are apart or in the same place at the same time. In the final segment, we ask some questions that anyone - in any type of relationship - can ask themselves and their partners to bring more intentionality to that relationship. Thanks for listening! Original Indepartners theme song composed by David W.K. Johnson. Get in touch with us: Email: indepartnerspodcast@gmail.com Text or Voicemail: 504-313-4425 Follow our podcast on Instagram at @indepartnerspodcast Follow Kurt on Instagram at @urbankvrt Follow Lisa on Instagram at @doclisafink and online at demandtheshimmer.com
S1 · E1
Feb 14, 2025 · 31 min
Myths: Busted!
Date: February 14, 2025 Show Title: Indepartners Episode Title and Number: 1. Myths: Busted! In their season launch, Lisa and Kurt talk about the origin of this podcast – and of their relationship. Having received reactions to their choice to live apart indefinitely that range from pity to disapproval to confusion to admiration, they recognized the value of clarifying the benefits of an Indepartnership as a legitimate and desirable choice for a permanent and loving relationship. Lisa and Kurt turn to AI to pick five of the central negative beliefs about long distance relationships and bust those myths with counterpoints from experience, observation, and behavioral science. They introduce their take on the concept of intentionality – to be explored more in Episode 2. Key moments · Lisa and Kurt’s origin story [1:20] · Myth busting: [4:55] Thanks for listening! Original Indepartners theme song composed by David W.K. Johnson. Get in touch with us: Email: indepartnerspodcast@gmail.com Text or Voicemail: 504-313-4425 Follow our podcast on Instagram at @indepartnerspodcast Follow Kurt on Instagram at @urbankvrt Follow Lisa on Instagram at @doclisafink and online at demandtheshimmer.com
Jan 26, 2025 · 2 min
Indepartners Trailer
Think long distance relationships never work? Think again! In Indepartners, two behavioral scientists talk about the advantages and opportunities that come with a permanent, loving relationship – that happens to take place in two different cities. Dr. Lisa Finkelstein and Dr. Kurt Kraiger have successfully navigated their careers while being, in their words, the happiest couple they know. As Lisa and Kurt explore the dynamics of love at a distance, couples living apart or living together will discover ways to be more intentional and get the most out of their relationships – and their personal lives. Listen as Lisa and Kurt explore topics like intentionality, communication, and the value of rituals over holidays in a 30-minute format combining personal experience, humor, and relatable examples. Episodes drop on the 14th of the month. Join us on Valentine's day - February 14, 2025 - for our first episode. Thanks for listening! Original Indepartners theme song composed by David W.K. Johnson. Get in touch with us: Email: indepartnerspodcast@gmail.com Text or Voicemail: 504-313-4425 Follow our podcast on Instagram at @indepartnerspodcast Follow Kurt on Instagram at @urbankvrt Follow Lisa on Instagram at @doclisafink and online at demandtheshimmer.com

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