Still Guessing

Kathryn's career has moved through science, a law degree, commercial and contract management, business management, programme management, risk, security and strategy, picking up a new profession every few years without ever really planning to, and now leads two major programmes worth £5-6 billion. In this episode, Danielle and Lauren talk to Kathryn about what it actually feels like to lead through uncertainty when there isn't a right answer, just a judgment call you have to be ready to defend. She's honest about the advice she was once given to be louder and more alpha male to get ahead, and why she turned it down, the reward she refused to accept after leading a difficult restructure, and the two periods in her career and life that nearly broke her. It's a conversation about leading with a moral compass instead of a script, why breadth can matter as much as depth, and what changes when you stop trying to do everything yourself and start helping other people do it better. Topics covered: A career built on saying yes to whatever came along Why breadth across different professions can matter as much as depth in one The car conversation with her boss six months into her first job, and thirty years of "guessing" her answers since Leading a major site closure after the Japanese tsunami Straight-talking bosses, and getting your own way without having to shout to get it Career as "snakes and ladders": sliding down, climbing back up, and not getting too grumpy at the bottom What leadership changed in her: from doing the task well herself to helping her team do it better Great Auntie Bertha, the no-nonsense schoolteacher who lived to 102 and never let anyone tell her what to do "Don't ever believe that people get more grown up and more sensible as they get more senior. Sometimes they get worse." If you've ever been told to be louder to get taken seriously, this one's for you.