Charles Grodin Documentary: Comedy Star, Prison Crusader

Who was Charles Grodin when the cameras weren't rolling? Most people know Charles Grodin from Midnight Run, The Heartbreak Kid or Beethoven. Far fewer know that he spent the last 20 years of his life working to get women out of prison, and visited them every week. Charles Grodin: Rebel with a Cause, the Charles Grodin documentary from James L. Freedman, tells both stories. In Episode 288, Christian sits down with James L. Freedman, a longtime sitcom writer who came to documentary filmmaking late. A question at a party about the best job he ever had led to his first film, Glickman, which Martin Scorsese executive produced for HBO. For his third, Grodin's widow, Elissa Grodin, sent him seven boxes of archives, about a hundred hours of material, and James did all of the research himself. James explains why he wouldn't make "an hour of him being funny" with the activism saved for the end. Instead he seeded Grodin's conscience through the whole film: the class president who helped Black students in Pittsburgh, the 1969 Simon & Garfunkel television special that lost its sponsor, and the CNBC show that turned to social issues. James quotes Grodin's own line: "You don't want me to picket the governor's office, you want me to be in the governor's office." He also walks through how he hunted down archival footage, how an independent filmmaker got Robert De Niro, Steve Martin, Martin Short and Elaine May on camera, and how he keeps a budget down as, in his words, "one guy making this movie." WATCH THE FILM: Charles Grodin: Rebel with a Cause is available to rent or buy on Amazon Prime Video, Apple TV, Fandango at Home and Google Play. James's film Carl Laemmle airs on TCM on Friday, October 23, at 8:00 p.m. ET. In this episode, you'll learn: Why James writes down his first impression of everything he likes, so he remembers how it first hit him after he's gone numb to it Why he finds a story's spine first, and how he knew his opening and closing when he saw them How the stars said yes, and why famous interviewees want to know who else is in the film How Elaine May changed her mind about an interview, and what she said after seeing the film How a Johnny Carson story became a Charles Bronson sequence, and why every second needs intent Where to find archival footage when none seems to exist How fair use, donated clips, grants and paid festival screenings fit into a documentary budget What surprised him most about Grodin: the weekly prison visits, and the father Grodin lost at 17 CHAPTERS 0:00 Midnight Run's Other Side 6:43 TV Writer Turned Filmmaker 12:24 Beginning, Middle and End 18:23 Getting De Niro and Elaine May 26:51 Charles Grodin on Johnny Carson 29:35 The Archival Footage Hunt 36:42 Narrating Your Own Documentary 39:43 Fair Use, Licensing and Costs 48:15 Scorsese's TCM Editing Trick 50:19 Weekly Prison Visits 53:54 Carl Laemmle Saved 300+ Refugees FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS How did a small documentary get Robert De Niro, Steve Martin and Martin Short? Director James L. Freedman says his first two films helped: Elissa Grodin watched both before giving him her husband's story, then connected him with Robert De Niro and Steve Martin. He cold-called Martin Short. Freedman believes they agreed because they loved Charles Grodin, and that stars want to see other recognizable names in a film so they know they aren't being exploited. What did Charles Grodin do for prison reform? For the last 20 years of his life, Charles Grodin worked to get women out of prison, most of them mothers of color with young children who had been caught in police stings. Director James L. Freedman says Grodin visited them every week, and a friend who saw him after those visits said he would come away a broken man, crying. As Freedman tells it, Grodin believed he could do more inside the governor's office than picketing outside it. How do independent documentary filmmakers keep costs down? James L. Freedman doesn't pay himself for his time, so he does the slow work himself: all of his own research and his own calls to studios. He asks rights holders to donate clips and photos, and when he has to pay, he asks for a discount, reminding them he is one filmmaker, not a corporation. When something unavoidable costs more, like a hotel suite for an interview, he makes the money back by spending less elsewhere. How do you find archival footage for a documentary? Director James L. Freedman does his own research and calls it a scavenger hunt. With no footage of Lovers and Other Strangers, the Broadway play Charles Grodin directed, he Googled every name in the Playbill and found a scene on The Ed Sullivan Show. For Glickman, he slowed a two-second newsreel shot to four seconds, and a snowy VHS tape led him to an old Paramount newsreel on nitrate film that came back crystal clear six months later. DOCUVIEW DEJA VIEW PICKS James's pick: Carl Laemmle (2019), his own second film, about the founder of Universal Studios, who helped more than 300 refugees escape Nazi Germany. It's on Amazon now. James says Glickman, his first film, comes to Fandango at Home by year's end. Need a doc for date night? Browse every guest pick on our DocuView Deja View page. SPONSORED BY VIRGIL FILMS ENTERTAINMENT This episode is brought to you by Virgil Films Entertainment, distributor of Super Size Me and the Oscar-nominated Restrepo, with over 25 years of distribution experience. https://virgilfilms.com LISTEN AND FOLLOW Listen and subscribe wherever you get podcasts: https://pod.fo/e/6e27d4 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@documentaryfirst SUPPORT THE SHOW Join our community on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/DocumentaryFirst CONNECT WITH DOCUMENTARY FIRST All platforms: https://linktr.ee/doc1st Christian Taylor on LinkedIn ABOUT THE GUEST James L. Freedman Writer, director and narrator, Charles Grodin: Rebel with a Cause James L. Freedman wrote in Hollywood for more than 25 years, on shows including Coach, Zoe and Cybill, where he was also a producer. Charles Grodin: Rebel with a Cause, his third film, is distributed by Virgil Films. Website: https://charlesgrodinfilm.com X (the film): https://x.com/ChuckGrodinFilm ABOUT DOCUMENTARY FIRST Documentary First is a weekly podcast about the people behind documentaries and how the work changed them. Host Christian Taylor, director of the award-winning The Girl Who Wore Freedom, talks with filmmakers from Ken Burns and PBS American Masters creator Susan Lacy to first-time directors, across more than 290 episodes. Each week brings one of two formats: a long-form conversation with the people behind films for HBO, Netflix, PBS and independent film, or The Deep Dive, where Christian takes one insight from a recent conversation and follows it wherever it leads. Listen Notes ranks the show in the top 5% of all podcasts worldwide. New episodes every week. RESOURCES MENTIONED TCM Films on Film schedule