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De Donkere Kamer (English)

Kaat Celis

De Donkere Kamer is the podcast for photographers who want to grow, behind the camera and in their business. Twice a week, host and photographer Kaat Celis shares a new episode: one solo conversation with her own reflections on creativity and craft, and one in-depth interview with respected names in international photography, including Anton Corbijn, Christopher Anderson, David Campany, and Harry Gruyaert. Together, these conversations explore what it takes to keep growing as a photographer, creatively and in business. New episodes every week. donkerekamer.com

  • 12 episodes
  • Updated Thursday

Episodes12

  • Thursday · 1 hr 10 min

    #55 - Nadav Kander: The electricity between two pictures

    My guest today grew up in Johannesburg and has lived and worked in London since the 1980s. He started photographing at thirteen and learned part of the craft in the darkroom of the South African Air Force. He won the Prix Pictet in 2009 for Yangtze: The Long River, and that same year The New York Times Magazine dedicated an entire issue to his series Obama's People. In 2019, Steidl published The Meeting, his first book devoted entirely to portraiture. This September, a new exhibition called The Edge of Things opens at FOAM in Amsterdam. We recorded this conversation in his home on Ibiza, and it took a direction I hadn't expected. Nadav Kander talks about the years he spent going back through his archive with curator David Campany, and what it means to let images from different decades speak to each other rather than treating each project as a closed chapter. He explains why he never sets out to tell a story, he makes one, and why a picture is only ever completed once a viewer brings their own history to it. What you'll learn in this episode Why Nadav spent the last few years revisiting his entire archive with David Campany, and what he found there that he had missed twenty years earlier Why he says "I don't tell stories, I make stories," and what that means for how he shows his work What eight minutes with President Obama actually looks like when three hours of preparation come before it Why stillness and a kind of quiet tension are what make a photograph work for him What a childhood memory of being afraid of dark water has to do with his Color Fields work today How his wife Nicole's focus on climate science is starting to press on what he photographs next, and why he's struggling to bring that into his work without turning it into documentary We also hear about his upcoming trips to Greenland and back to the South Africa he grew up in. About Nadav Kander Nadav Kander (born 1961, Tel Aviv) is a photographer based in London since the 1980s. He won the Prix Pictet in 2009 for Yangtze: The Long River, and his portraits of Barack Obama's first administration were the subject of a dedicated New York Times Magazine issue. His first book of portraiture, The Meeting, was published by Steidl in 2019. His work sits between the visible and the invisible, presence and disappearance. Links and resources Nadav Kander's website The Edge of Things, FOAM Amsterdam, opening 18 September through February, info The Edge of Things (book, Thames & Hudson) Dark Line: The Thames Estuary (book, Ghost) This summer: The Daily Frame Growth matters for you too, so this summer I've put together The Daily Frame, a series of short audio clips, up to 15 minutes, sent to you every workday for four weeks, with tips on creativity, mindset and business. Listen from your beach chair or on a walk and stay in your flow all summer long. It's 10 euros, so don't let the price hold you back. Register here. Free webinar: The 5 things top photographers constantly do to grow Want to know the real patterns behind how top photographers create, showcase and sustain their projects? Join my free 120-minute live webinar, where I share the recurring patterns top photographers worldwide use to stay confident, focused, unique and visible, drawn from hundreds of interviews, mentoring sessions and international experience. Reserve your spot

  • Tuesday · 36 min

    #54 - Back from summer break, with news from the end of the world

    After a full month of summer break, De Donkere Kamer is back. I'm taking you through my summer between France and Belgium, from Les Rencontres d'Arles to a conversation with photographer Nadav Kander in Ibiza, and sharing my big news along the way: a photography workshop in Patagonia and a new season of live shows. At Les Rencontres d'Arles, I felt a photography world wrestling with uncertainty and change, partly because of the heat and the wildfires in the region. From now on, I'm also splitting De Donkere Kamer into two channels: my English interviews, like the one with Nadav Kander, will move to the English podcast channel, while this channel stays Dutch-language. From February 13 to 20, 2027, I'm organizing a multi-day workshop with photographer Bastiaan Woudt at Estancia El Condor in Patagonia, a remote 40,000-hectare ranch on the Chilean border. With a small, international group of eight photographers, I'll combine photography, hiking and horseback riding with sessions on both the creative and the business side of your practice. My autumn and winter are taking shape too. My live shows return on October 16 at Pakhuis de Zwijger in Amsterdam, with among others Nadav Kander, Robin de Puy, Bieke Depoorter and Wilfried de Jong, followed by shows on November 28 at C-Mine in Genk, February 7 at the Minard Schouwburg in Ghent, and April 14 at CC De Factorij in Zaventem. I'm also opening registration for my free webinar: The 5 things top photographers constantly do to grow. In this live, 120-minute session I walk you through the recurring patterns I see in top photographers worldwide, drawn from hundreds of interviews and mentoring sessions, and how you can turn that insight into action in your own work. You can save your spot here This episode comes to you with support from Cameranu. I go to Cameranu for my own gear. They think along with me, from a new lens to a camera I can rely on during a client shoot. As a De Donkere Kamer listener, you get 10% off with code DDK10 Patagonia workshop (February 13-20, 2027) Tickets for the shows Cameranu, 10% off with code DDK10

  • Jan 1, 2025 · 24 min

    #9 - Four skills to grow as a photographer and entrepreneur

    In this solo episode of De Donkere Kamer, Kaat walks you through her own yearly planning and shares four skills you can train to really move forward in the year ahead, both as a photographer and as an entrepreneur. She starts from her own experience of the past year, when a schedule that was always too full left her no room to think about direction or growth, and explains how she broke that pattern. What you'll learn in this episode Why taking a critical look at your current situation is the starting point for any good yearly plan, and which question you need to ask yourself first. How to make choices faster, even if you're naturally inclined to keep everyone happy or to keep pushing decisions ahead of you. Why regular self-reflection helps you spot blind spots before they slow down your business. How to deal with the tension around a big decision, and why that tension often points to something you truly want. What kind of mentor Kaat wants to be in 2025, and which photographers her 1:1 mentoring is for. Links and resources Cameranu (partner of this episode): Cameranu is Kaat's go-to for photography equipment. Go to cameranu.be and use code DDK10 for 10% off your next purchase. 1:1 mentoring with Kaat: donkerekamer.com/mentor CONNECT membership: donkerekamer.com/connect Contact: info@donkerkamer.com Do you recognize yourself in the big dreams and ambitions Kaat talks about in this episode, but don't want to work on them alone? There's currently one spot open for February and two spots for March in the 1:1 mentoring program. Go to donkerekamer.com/mentor or email info@donkerkamer.com to talk through your path forward.

  • Dec 5, 2024 · 44 min

    #8 - Lara Gasparotto: "Photography was always a refuge"

    In this episode I step away from my usual setup for something new: my very first live podcast recording, in front of an audience who got to ask their own questions once the conversation wrapped up. My guest is Belgian photographer Lara Gasparotto, whose intimate, dreamlike images move between tenderness and melancholy, always playing with the relationship between light and silence. In this episode, you'll hear about: Lara's Italian roots and how growing up in Liège, a city she describes as one that was "always trying to be destroyed," shaped her artistic path Her sixth book, Refuge, made during a period when she went through depression for the first time, while friends of hers were fighting at the front in Ukraine Why she resists the word "artist" and finds it too pretentious to claim, even after ten years with gallery Stieglitz19 How drawing and painting on her own photographs became a way back to something she loved as a teenager, before she ever picked up a camera Nature as a compass in her work, the "wolf pack" of friends from Liège who shaped who she is, and becoming a mother at three and a half years into this new chapter Her social engagement, from a project in Ukraine to work in Congo to an upcoming collaboration with the Schunck Museum in Indonesia on the region's colonial past About Lara Gasparotto Lara Gasparotto (born 1989, Liège) is a Belgian photographer represented by Stieglitz19 for the past ten years. She studied at Saint-Luc École supérieure des arts and picked up a camera for the first time at fifteen, handed to her by photographer Thomas Chable. Her work has been exhibited internationally and often draws comparisons to Sally Mann and Francesca Woodman, though her own influences come more from painting, film and literature than from photography itself. This episode's partner: Cameranu This episode was recorded in collaboration with Cameranu. They understand better than anyone that as a photographer you need more than creativity alone, you also need the right tools, whether that's a new lens or a camera you can rely on during a client shoot. Their specialists think along with you and give you honest advice. As a listener of De Donkere Kamer, you get 10% off your next purchase with the code DDK10 (capitals) at cameranu.be. Free webinar Something I've noticed for a while now, across the strongest photographers I speak to in this podcast, in masterclasses, and in my 1:1 mentoring, is how consistent their patterns are. In a free webinar I walk you through those five patterns and show you how to apply them in your own way. It's free to join and you'll walk away with concrete insights. Sign up here. Did this live podcast format work for you? Let me know by DM or send an email to info@donkerekamer.com.

  • Oct 31, 2024 · 1 hr 7 min

    #7 - Tomas van Houtryve on Notre-Dame, borders and photography as a language

    In this episode, Kaat sits down in Paris with Tomas van Houtryve, the Belgian-American photographer and filmmaker who has lived in the city since 2006. Tomas was selected by National Geographic to document Notre-Dame after the devastating fire of 2019, and his book on the project comes out at the end of October or beginning of November. They talk about that years-long, almost intimate relationship with the cathedral, about language and national borders as a recurring thread in his work, and about why he picks a different technique for every project, from drone photography to 19th-century wet plate collodion. AI, curiosity as a driving force, and his new research into the relationship between people and nature in the Alps also come up. What you'll learn in this episode How Tomas got access to Notre-Dame, and what it meant to spend months climbing around it in a hazmat suit. Why he deliberately switches between techniques, and how each one opens a different window onto the same subject. How, inspired by Hokusai's 36 views of Mount Fuji, he found a fresh way to look at one of the most photographed monuments on earth. Why borders (language, land, religion) have fascinated him for years, from the Belgian language border to North and South Korea. How he thinks about the future of photography now that AI-generated images are getting harder to tell apart from real ones. About the guest Tomas van Houtryve is a photographer, filmmaker and researcher, born in 1975 and based in Paris. His work weaves together investigative journalism, philosophy and metaphor, and has been recognized with honors including the Pulitzer Fellowship, the Hasselblad Foundation Research and Development Award, the ICP Infinity Award and a World Press Photo Award. He is a fellow at Columbia University's Institute for Ideas and Imagination in Paris and is currently working on a project about the shifting relationship between people and nature in the Alps. This episode is brought to you by Cameranu Kaat turns to Cameranu herself when it comes to gear. Their specialists think along with you and give you honest advice, whether you're after a new lens or a camera you can rely on during a client shoot. Listeners of De Donkere Kamer get 10% off with code DDK10 at cameranu.be. Free webinar: what growing photographers do differently Through her work with top photographers, in masterclasses and in 1:1 mentoring, Kaat keeps noticing the same patterns in the photographers who keep growing. In a free webinar, she walks you through the five things these photographers consistently do, with practical insights you can apply yourself. Sign up here for free More from De Donkere Kamer Want to grow as a photographer yourself? Discover the options for 1:1 mentoring, masterclasses and the CONNECT membership at donkerekamer.com.

  • Sep 1, 2024 · 52 min

    #6 - Jonas Bendiksen (Magnum Photos) on AI, fake news and the Book of Veles

    In 2021, Magnum photographer Jonas Bendiksen published a photo book that looked in every way like classic photojournalism. He waited for someone to notice that something was off. That moment never came. Not a single critical comment, not even from his own colleagues at Magnum. The Book of Veles tells the story of a Macedonian town that made money from fake news during the 2016 US election, but the people in the photos didn't exist. They were computer-generated. Jonas kept the hoax going for six months and eventually had to create a fake profile himself just to set his own unmasking in motion. In this conversation we talk about how Jonas grew up in Tønsberg, why he joined Magnum Photos in 2004, and why he moved his family from Manhattan to a small community in Norway to protect his creative process. We also talk about the panic behind The Book of Veles, why he refuses to keep working in the AI space even though it would be the smart commercial move, and what he thinks photography can offer that AI cannot replace. In this episode: Why Jonas made a fully fictional photo book with AI-generated images and let his own peers believe it was real journalism How he had to plant a fake profile to force his own hoax into the open Why he believes photography's problems started long before AI, and what he means by "we photographers have always been the biggest machine learning system of them all" Why he moved his family from Manhattan to a small village in Norway Why fixing his sailboat means just as much to him as taking pictures About Jonas Bendiksen Jonas Bendiksen began his career at nineteen as an intern at Magnum Photos in London, before leaving for Russia to photograph the fringes of the former Soviet Union. He joined Magnum Photos in 2004 and has worked for Geo, Newsweek, Vanity Fair and National Geographic. With The Book of Veles he created one of the most talked-about experiments at the intersection of photography and AI. He lives in Norway with his family, splitting his time between commissions, personal projects and his sailboat. Links Jonas Bendiksen at Magnum Photos The Book of Veles This episode is brought to you by Camera Nu. They think along with you about the right equipment for your photography, from a new lens to a camera you can rely on during a client shoot, and always give honest advice. Listeners of De Donkere Kamer get 10% off with code DDK10 at cameranu.be. In this episode, Kaat also shares the five patterns she keeps seeing in photographers who keep growing, patterns she has picked up through the podcast, her masterclasses and her 1:1 mentoring. She walks through all five in a free webinar, with concrete ways to apply them yourself. You can sign up here.

  • May 31, 2024 · 53 min

    #5 - Lee-Ann Olwage on documentary photography, dementia in Africa and World Press Photo

    My guest today just won World Press Photo Story of the Year for Valim-babena, her project about dementia in Madagascar made for GEO Magazine. Lee-Ann Olwage is a South African documentary and portrait photographer whose work centers on identity, collaboration and celebration, and in this conversation she takes us into the four years and five reporting trips it took to find a way to tell this story with tenderness instead of shock. What you'll learn in this episode Why Lee-Ann decided never to take the most shocking image she could have made, and what that reveals about how she approaches a story. How The Big Forget came to be, her long-term project on dementia across different African communities, and why so many local languages have no word for the disease. What changed for her when her own father was diagnosed with dementia, just days before her reporting trip to Madagascar. Why she calls herself lucky, while also having stood outside a prison for six months trying to get access to a story. How nine years of working as a set decorator on film sets shaped her visual style as a documentary photographer. Her advice to young photographers: build your own visual voice, expect a lot of no's, and find other work that buys you the freedom to make what you love About the guest Lee-Ann Olwage is a documentary and portrait photographer from South Africa, born in Durban in 1986. She won World Press Photo Story of the Year 2025 with Valim-babena, and previously won World Press Photo Awards in 2020 and 2023. She is a member of Native Women Photograph and African Women in Photography, and her work has appeared in major international newspapers and magazines. Her work centers on identity, collaboration and celebration, using photography as a form of co-creation. This episode is brought to you by Cameranu. They understand better than anyone that as a photographer you need more than creativity, you also need the right tools, whether that's a new lens or a camera you can rely on during a client shoot. Their specialists think along with you and give honest advice. Listeners of De Donkere Kamer get 10% off their next purchase with code DDK10 at cameranu.be. After years of working with top photographers through this podcast, in masterclasses, and in one-on-one mentoring, Kaat noticed something: the photographers who keep growing all do a handful of things remarkably consistently. Not talent, not luck, but a set of patterns that repeat across every single one of them. In this free webinar, Kaat breaks down those five things and shows you exactly how to apply them to your own photography and business, whatever stage you're at. It's free, it's practical, and it's the shortcut she wishes someone had given her years ago. Sign up here. Links and resources Lee-Ann Olwage's website Free webinar "The 5 things growing photographers consistently do"

  • Apr 1, 2024 · 52 min

    #4 - Fiona Shields (The Guardian): on trust, AI and choosing the images that matter

    In this episode Kaat sits down with Fiona Shields, Head of Photography for The Guardian and The Observer, recorded in Amsterdam while Fiona was chairing the World Press Photo jury. Fiona has led the photo desk at The Guardian for 25 years, and she takes us through what that job actually looks like day to day: running a global team publishing 24/7, staying close to photo editing herself a few days a week, and making fast calls on images that reach millions of readers. The conversation covers AI and the trust problem it creates for photojournalism, why The Guardian now works with local photographers instead of flying someone in to parachute into a story, what a busy photo editor needs from your pitch (send a PDF, not a WeTransfer link), and how Fiona deals with the emotional weight of covering conflict week after week. She also shares how she landed in photography almost by accident, after a teacher pushed her toward a journalism course, and why she still believes a single photograph can do something a video can't. What you'll learn in this episode What it takes to lead a photo desk that publishes across print and web, 24 hours a day How AI is changing trust in photojournalism, and how The Guardian is thinking about verification Why local photographers now get picked over parachuting an outsider into a story How to pitch a busy photo editor so your email actually gets opened How Fiona processes the emotional weight of editing images from Gaza, Ukraine and other conflicts, without losing the ability to do the job About the guest -Fiona Shields is Head of Photography for The Guardian and The Observer. She grew up in Scotland, trained as a journalist in London and discovered early on that picture editing, not writing, was where she belonged. She has spent 25 years at The Guardian, and in 2024 she chaired the international jury of the World Press Photo Contest in Amsterdam. Along the way she has overseen the paper's coverage of 9/11, the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, COVID-19, and the wars in Ukraine and Gaza. Links and resources The Guardian: theguardian.com World Press Photo: worldpressphoto.org Women Photograph (directory for female and non-binary photographers): womenphotograph.com This episode is brought to you by Cameranu. When Kaat needs new gear, whether it's a lens or a camera she can trust on a client shoot, this is where she goes. Their specialists think along with you and give honest advice. As a De Donkere Kamer listener, you get 10% off your next purchase with the code DDK10 at cameranu.be. free webinar I'll walk you through the five things photographers who keep growing all do consistently, and how to apply them your own way, in a free webinar. Sign up here

  • Mar 1, 2024 · 1 hr

    #3 - Edward Burtynsky on photographing the cost of progress

    Intro In this episode Kaat sits down with Canadian photographer Edward Burtynsky in London, right after the opening of his biggest retrospective ever at the Saatchi Gallery. They talk about the furnace room where his father taught him to develop his first roll of film, the helicopter doors he still flies with off, and the four decades he has spent photographing what industry does to the natural world. Edward also opens up about running his own print lab since 1985, about carrying both the artist and the entrepreneur in himself, and about why he still believes in hope as a form of action. This episode is sponsored by Cameranu. As a photographer you need more than creativity, you also need the right equipment, and Camera Nu's specialists give honest, personal advice, whether you're looking for a new lens or a camera you can rely on during a client shoot. Use code DDK10 at cameranu.be for 10% off your next purchase. What you'll learn in this episode How Edward got his first camera and darkroom for 25 dollars from a widow in St. Catharines, and what his very first roll of film taught him about the way he still shoots today. Why he decided as early as 1983 to dedicate his career to the relationship between humans and nature, long before climate change became a mainstream topic. How he builds his large murals today, locking a drone into a fixed position and stitching together dozens of high resolution frames. Why he has run his own print lab since 1985, and what that taught him about running a business. How he balances being an artist with leading a team of production staff and curators, and a studio that ships exhibitions around the world. Halfway through, Kaat shares the five things the top photographers she works with, through this podcast, her masterclasses and her 1:1 mentoring, all do consistently, and how you can apply them yourself. It's free, sign up here. About the guest Edward Burtynsky is a Canadian photographer known worldwide for his large scale images of industrial landscapes, mines, quarries and the human imprint on nature. His work has been shown in major museums and galleries around the world, and formed the basis of the documentary films Manufactured Landscapes and Watermark. His retrospective, curated together with a longtime collaborator, is currently on show at the Saatchi Gallery in London, spread across eight rooms with murals and large format prints. If this conversation gave you something, share it with another photographer who might need it too. Want to work on your own photography or your business? Everything about mentoring, masterclasses and workshops is on donkerekamer.com.

  • Feb 23, 2024 · 56 min

    #2 Joumana El Zein Khoury on rebalancing World Press Photo, AI, and why culture is a basic need

    Joumana El Zein Khoury has spent her career building bridges between culture under pressure and the people who need to see it. Born in Beirut in 1975 and now based in the Netherlands, she previously led the Prince Claus Fund and worked with the Arab Image Foundation in Beirut before becoming executive director of the World Press Photo Foundation in 2021, right in the middle of the pandemic. In this episode, Joumana talks about: Why she calls herself a "democratic dictator," and how she led World Press Photo through a full organizational transition Why the foundation introduced selection criteria requiring at least one local and one female or non-binary winner per region, and what actually changed as a result How World Press Photo deals with AI-generated and AI-edited images in a photojournalism contest, and where it draws the line Why she believes culture is as basic a human need as food or shelter, and what that means for displaced and refugee communities What it's like to look at thousands of the world's most difficult images every year, and how she finds her own balance Why the World Press Photo archive, turning 70 next year, might be her biggest personal project yet This episode is a look inside one of the most influential organizations in photojournalism, and the woman rethinking whose stories get told, and how. You can find more of World Press Photo's work, exhibitions and archive at worldpressphoto.org. This episode of De Donkere Kamer podcast is proudly supported by Cameranu, specialist in cameras, lenses and photography gear. FREE WEBINAR: The 5 things top photographers constantly do to grow. Discover the real, proven patterns top photographers use to stay inspired, finish their projects, and keep their creative identity intact, without losing themselves in a crowded market. Reserve your free spot now Want personal, one-on-one feedback on your own photography? Book a review session with Kaat, a tailor-made 90-minute conversation about your practice and your questions. More info here

  • Dec 18, 2023 · 1 hr

    #1 Gaël Turine on photographing climate change, addiction in America, and staying loyal to slow storytelling

    My guest today is Belgian documentary photographer and photojournalist Gaël Turine. Raised in a family of documentary filmmakers, he found his calling early: a childhood year spent on a small island in the Indian Ocean planted a lifelong need to travel, observe, and tell stories through images. Decades later, that same instinct led him to turn his camera on his own country, walking the flooded river valleys of Wallonia for two years to document the long, slow aftermath of a climate disaster most of the world had already stopped watching. We talk about why he chose black and white panoramic landscapes over the human portraits he's known for, what it means to fund and shape a personal project from scratch, the ephemeral but intense encounters he has with the people he photographs, and why he still doesn't fully trust short-form video and algorithms as a home for serious documentary work. We also get into his television work for Arte, his dream project on cooperatives around the world, and the farmhouse in the Ardennes he escapes to when the work gets too heavy. This episode is proudly supported by Cameranu, my partner for camera gear in Belgium and the Netherlands. It's where I send the photographers I work with when they're looking for honest advice and equipment that can actually keep up with serious work. As a listener of this show, you get 10% off with code [CODE]. In this episode you'll learn: Why Gaël chose black-and-white panoramic landscapes instead of portraits to document the Wallonia floods How he secured government funding for a two-year personal project, and what he offered in return What "activism through documentary" looks like when the story is about your own country Why he still doesn't trust algorithms and short-form video as a home for serious photojournalism How his farmhouse in the Ardennes shapes both his creative process and his ability to disconnect About the guest: Gaël Turine is a Belgian documentary photographer and photojournalist based in Brussels. Raised by two documentary-making parents, he has spent 25 years covering stories for international magazines, teaches documentary journalism at the Université libre de Bruxelles, and produces documentaries for Arte. His long-term project on the Wallonia floods, Mémoire des Rivières, was exhibited at the Musée de la Photographie in Charleroi. Website Gael Turine. Want to build a photography practice that lasts decades, not seasons? Explore 1:1 mentoring with Kaat. Find all info here.

  • Dec 1, 2023 · 1 min

    Welcome to De Donkere Kamer podcast!

    Welcome to De Donkere Kamer. My name is Kaat Celis, I'm a photographer and entrepreneur myself, and this is the podcast for photographers who want to go further, creatively and in business. Twice a week, I bring you two new episodes: one solo conversation where I share my own reflections on creativity, on building a photography practice, and on what it really takes to keep choosing this path, and one in-depth interview with some of the most respected names in international photography, from Anton Corbijn to Christopher Anderson to David Campany to Nadav Kander. This is the new English home for those conversations, and you don't have to wait for episode one. There's already a full archive waiting for you, years of interviews with some of the biggest names in photography, so start wherever speaks to you most. If you're a photographer who wants to grow, both behind the camera and in your business, you're in the right place. Subscribe, and I'll see you in the next episode